PastryScoop Fall Baking Chat Series

Sarabeth Levine of Sarabeth’s Kitchen
September 8, 2004

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Today we have one of NYC’s favorite bakers with us—Sarabeth Levine from Sarabeth’s Kitchen. Welcome! Does anyone have any questions to start?

<abc> How long in advance can you bake and fill p âte a choux shells for cream puffs or eclairs?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Not too long. Ideally, the same day that you are going to eat them.

<Sarabeth_Levine> They get stale very quickly. Fresh is best.

<sassygirl> What about freezing them raw and then baking them when they get to room temperature?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I’ve never tried it that way.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I usually make the batter/dough, chill them a little, then bake them, and fill them just before dessert time.

<sassygirl> Could you bake, freeze, then refresh them?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Yes.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Warm them a touch after defrosting. This gets rid of the moisture.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Then let them reach room temperature so that when you fill them the cream doesn’t melt.

<sassygirl> What’s the ratio of raw choux to finished product in baking?

< Sarabeth_Levine> sassy girl, I don’t know that answer off hand. Sorry.

<sassygirl> If the choux does not rise enough what would be the cause?

< Sarabeth_Levine> sassygirl, failure of choux paste depends on the temperature of the melted butter. Don’t use it boiling hot.

<ChefARA> Are there any cakes that can be frozen after baking for clients and then defrosted with no ill effects? I am a personal chef and need to have gifts ready for last-minute clients.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Pie crust can be frozen. We do it all the time in the bakery.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Make your dough and place it in disposable pie shells. Bag them and freeze and use as needed. Fill the pies and pop them in the oven while the crust is still frozen.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Do you have a method or formula for increasing/decreasing the leavening (i.e. baking soda, baking powder) when dealing with recipes in large quantities. This is often a question that I get asked.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Judiaann, that is a tricky one. I have the answer.

<Sarabeth_Levine> When you start doubling recipes that use both baking powder and soda, you cannot just double those two ingredients.

<Sarabeth_Levine> The baking powder can be doubled but the baking soda cannot. For example, if a recipe calls for three teaspoons of baking powder and two teaspoons of baking soda, I would double the baking powder but only add an extra teaspoon of baking soda.

<Toni> Why is it that you can double the baking powder but not the soda?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Because you will have an overreaction and bubbling of the batter and the cake will be grainy. Too much baking soda. Baking soda calms the acidity which occurs in products that have lemons, molasses, or honey.

<TinaFCI> Are there some things that you can just double or triple without having to alter the recipe much?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Doubling and tripling aren’t so much an issue but when you have to do ten times the original recipe is when it starts to get tricky.

<Toni> Is it just trial and error when multiplying a recipe or is there a basic formula?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Ten times a recipe is only tricky when you have baking powder mixed with soda. Not a problem with most recipes.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> What about mixing pie dough? At home, a food processor works great but can you successfully make an American style pie dough in a Hobart or other large commercial mixer?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Judiaann, I have a special recipe for pie dough and yes, I make it in the Hobart.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Is the pie crust recipe a secret or are you willing to divulge? Many home bakers and beginning pastry chefs do not realize that recipes and procedures need to be altered when made in large quantities.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> After all, rarely does one make one pie or one batch of cookies in a bakery.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I am happy to share the recipe. Email me at pastrytown@aol.com.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Great! Thanks.

<maya> I am looking for a good, moist honey cake recipe. Got one?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Maya, are you talking about a honey bee cake shaped like a hive? The FCI has a great recipe using brioche that gets soaked in a honey syrup. The whole thing gets piped with meringue and torched and decorated with marzipan bees. Very cute and very moist.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Yes, I have a nice honey cake recipe. It has apple sauce in it which makes for a moist cake.

<maya> No, I was talking about honey cake for the Jewish holiday.

<ChefARA> Would love that beehive recipe; great for next week’s holidays.

<ChefARA> No reason why desserts have to be traditional all the time, right?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> ChefARA, send me an email at info@pastryscoop.com and I will send you the recipe for the honey bee cake.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Judiaann, that sounds great. Send in the bees.

<ChefARA> Thanks, Judiann, I will.

<maya> Thanks, I will send an e-mail too.

<Toni> Are there any books you can recommend that would teach the altering procedures for larger quantities that you can recommend?

<abc> Do you have a favorite baking reference?

<Sarabeth_Levine> No, just practice until it is right. There are books on the science of food that would help you.

<transplant> Ms. Levine, I have problems with the second rise for bread in that it does not seem to have enough energy. I do the indent test and it seems to be alright. Any suggestions?

<Sarabeth_Levine> It can be one of many things: packaged dry yeast, water temperature too hot, killing the yeast spore.

<Sarabeth_Levine> The first rise went too long and the yeast cells lost their strength.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Fresh yeast not fresh enough.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Adding salt directly on top of yeast will destroy the cells.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Does this ring true for you in what went wrong?

<transplant> The only thing that may have happened is the rise time. Very careful with water temp, etc.

<Sarabeth_Levine> The rise time is critical. Better to take the first rise a little early than late.

<transplant> Thank you for you help.

<kdavis> Did you work at other places before owning your own business?

<Sarabeth_Levine> No, I have only worked in my own bakery.

<abc> Do you have a good recipe for p âte sucrée?

<Sarabeth_Levine> There are many good recipes. P âte sucrée is very basic. If you want a rich, soft dough replace a few of the whole eggs with a couple of yolks.

<dani> Do you have any tips for making cookies soft and chewy? Is it just baking it in less time or an ingredient?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop > Dani, many things will determine whether a cookie is soft or not (ratio of sugar(s), moisture, type of flour, etc.) It’s best to start off with a recipe that is designed to be soft in texture. I do think that most people tend to overbake their cookies—especially chocolate chip cookies.

<TinaFCI> Don’t some people say to put a piece of apple in the container to keep cookies soft?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Dani, soft and chewy cookies come from less sugar more butter. Crispy cookies have more sugar.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Proper storage can extend the shelf live of a chewy cookie as well.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Never heard about the apple in the cookie box. Do you know that a heel of sourdough bread in you brown sugar container keeps the sugar from getting hard?

<Laurie> Hello, I’m the pastry chef at the Playboy Mansion and I do a lot of buffets. Do you have any dessert ideas?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Laurie, ooh la la. . . .

<Sarabeth_Levine> Laurie, small tarts are a nice thing. . . sandwich cookies, small palmiers. . . one and a half-inch size two bites.

<Laurie> Thanks Sarabeth.

<kdavis> Did you attend culinary school or are you self-taught?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I am self-taught and have learned so much from people that have worked at the bakery.

<cemgem> Where can one acquire a noncommercial amount of glaze powder?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> cemgem, Do you need glaze “powder” specifically or just a small quantity of glaze?

<cemgem> A small amount of glaze or how to make your own.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I do not use glaze powder, apple jelly diluted with a little water can do the trick on tarts.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes, warmed and strained apple jelly, apricot jam, or red currant jelly all seem to work well.

<Judiaan_PastryScoop> You can thin the jam with a little water if you wish and apply it to your desserts with a pastry brush for a shiny, tasty glaze.

<cemgem> Thanks for the info.

<ChefARA> Are there any cakes that do not suffer from being frozen after baking?

<Sarabeth_Levine> If you freeze immediately after cooling your cakes, they will be fine when defrosted.

<ChefARA> Thanks, Sarabeth. What is the best way to defrost? Covered or not? Refrigerator or counter?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Defrost on the counter covered.

<ChefARA> Great. Thanks, Sarabeth.

<kdavis> If you bake a batch of cookies and then freeze them, when they’re thawed, are they just as good as when they were baked?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I don’t think cookies freeze well.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Freshly baked is almost always better in my opinion but many cookie doughs freeze wonderfully.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Freeze first and bake as needed.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Doughs freeze well. Baked cookies do not freeze well.

<kdavis> Thank you.

<ChefARA> I must tell you that I’ve taken my granddaughter to your restaurant whenever I visit New York ever since she was a baby and she just loves it!

<Sarabeth_Levine> So happy you and your granddaughter enjoy our restaurants. Keep coming.

<ChefARA> We will.

<DeeH> Hi, Sarabeth. What type of icing do you use for your wedding cakes?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I love meringue buttercream—light and delicious. Butter only.

<ChefARA> Butter is the only way to go.

<kdavis> Does your buttercream turn out white or with a yellow tint?

<Sarabeth_Levine> A yellow tinge is not objectionable.

<kdavis> What do you do when you need a pure white icing?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Buttercream made with a meringue is very, very pale yellow and can easily pass as white. A bride would much rather have a cake that tastes good than be shockingly stark white.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I’m always skeptical whenever I see a too white wedding cake. It screams Crisco.

<kdavis> J

<ChefARA> Crisco makes my taste buds scream.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Crisco does not exist for me.

<Sarabeth_Levine> My wedding cakes are a beautiful off-white. The more you beat the butercream the lighter the color but never white. Also what is so nice is that if you use white fresh flowers on your cake the contrast is beautiful and subtle.

<maya> I need to make an orange flavored sugar glaze. The kind that gets shiny. I have been mixing 10X sugar with a few tablespoon of fresh orange juice. The thing is that the icing doesn’t seem to hold or be thick enough. If I add more 10X sugar, it seems to lose its orange flavor. What can I do?

<BakerMan> Can’t you add Tang to intensify the orange flavor and color?

<ChefARA> What about Boyajian orange oil? It’s natural and you have to use so very little for a big bang of flavor?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I would use a natural orange extract or paste to boost the flavor.

<dvorah> Why not use orange flavoring?

<maya> You mean to add food color?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> You can also add reduced juice in the recipe to substitute out some of the liquid as well as adding fresh orange zest.

<pattycake> Orange oil gives a great orange taste.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Orange zest is the best idea because it’s hard to get the flavor in the glaze. Oranges are much more subtle than lemons. A lemon glaze is easy.

<ChefARA> I find the Boyajian natural oils to be fabulous. I use the tangerine and lime often in both sweet and savory items where I don’t want juice to dilute.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> That’s a great tip.

<maya> I know, and I did add the zest. I like the way its shows on the glaze but still. . . .

<Sarabeth_Levine> I will have to check them out. Do they taste a little artificial?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I haven’t tried Boyajian, but I know that some brands taste better than others.

<ChefARA> No, they are 100% natural. They are oils pressed from the zest and are not flavorings in an oil.

<maya> ChefARA: Isn’t the oil going to make a funny flavor?

<ChefARA> Not at all. They are not oils with flavoring, but the natural oil that squirts from the zest.

<maya> Got you. Thanks.

<pattycake> Orange oil is extracted from the orange peel. It does not have an oil taste. 1/4 teaspoon is equal to one tablespoon of zest.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Thank you, pattycake.

<kdavis> How do you get your icing perfectly smooth on the cake? Is the icing thin or medium?

<kdavis> Does it take lots of practice to get a smooth cake or the right icing consistency or both?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Yes, it takes lots of practice. The first thing to do is mask the cake with a light layer. Then chill for about 15 minutes. Then I apply another layer, thicker than the first.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Again, I refrigerate before I apply the final coat. This works great for me. You have to learn how to handle the spatula.

<kdavis> So you use three coats of icing?

<kdavis> What consistency of icing do you use for the second layer?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> The consistency of the buttercream that you apply to the cake should be the same throughout.

<Sarabeth_Levine> The same—soft enough to spread nicely. You will have to experiment.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Getting buttercream to be really smooth on a wedding cake just takes practice, but buttercream is easier to make smooth than many other types of icing/frostings. You might want to apply a thin crumb coat first. Chill. Then add another smooth layer of buttercream. It also helps to have the buttercream at the right temperature (not too soft or too stiff). Be careful not to make it too thick and use an off-set or straight thin spatulas designed for the job.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I have found that placing the cake on a cake stand and using a bench scraper as a spatula works fantastic.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I slowly turn the cake and apply very light pressure as I turn the stand.

<ChefARA> What a great tip.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> A rotating cake stand makes the job much easier.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Scrape the excess buttercream off the spatula before each new motion.

<kdavis> Do you smooth the top or sides first?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I smooth the top first then I do the sides and then I smooth what comes up to the top edge with an offset spatula using strokes towards the center of the cake.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Yes, it’s necessary to clean your tools after each stroke.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Do not spin the cake stand too quickly.

<kdavis> Thank you very much. I really need to practice. J

<Sarabeth_Levine> Our wedding cakes come out very smooth almost like marzipan, which I never use. Practice makes perfect.

<kdavis> Do you generally use buttercream flowers or gumpaste?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Neither. I use beautiful fresh flowers from nature.

<barb> What is the difference when recipes call for almond paste?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Barb, almond paste is made from finely ground almonds and sugar. It’s not as sweet as marzipan.

<barb> Thanks, Judiaann.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Almond paste is a wonderful ingredient. I add a little bit to some of my cakes. . . just enough to give a hint of almond.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Almond paste is often used to make almond cream which includes the addition of eggs, flour, and often some booze. I love desserts with almond cream.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Almond cream makes a great tart filling base and you can use it to fill day old croissants to make even more delectable almond croissants.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Almond cream is also great on the bottom of apple tarts. . . very French.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I use it in our almond filled croissants.

<maya> Thanks everyone. Bye, Sarabeth. I am going to send you an e-mail regarding that apple sauce honey cake.

<maya> Have a nice day.

<Ginny> Do you do a lot of wedding cakes with fondant? It seems to be a big trend now.

<Sarabeth_Levine> I do not use fondant. I can make my cakes look as smooth and they are better tasting than fondant or marzipan.

<kdavis> Have you ever heard of rolled buttercream? It is like fondant but tastes like buttercream?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Rolled butter cream??? Tell me more.

<DeeH> I just finished a class in rolled buttercream. It has Crisco, 10X sugar, and Karo.

<Ginny> I have read about the rolled buttercream. It sounds very interesting to work with.

<ChefARA> No butter—how can it be buttercream?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Not sure about that.

<kdavis> I was searching for recipes on the Internet and found it. I haven’t made it yet, but was wondering if anyone knew if it was good.

<kdavis> Or Sweetex, but I don’t know what Sweetex is. Do you?

<DeeH> kdavis, it tasted to me like candy corn.

<JerseyCakes> You add butter flavor to it.

<DeeH> Sweetex is a brand name like Crisco.

<kdavis> Thank you DeeH, does it cover the cake well?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Crisco??? Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Not for me.

<ww> If you don’t like Crisco, you definitely won’t like rolled buttercream.

<barb> Could you make it from scratch? Any formulas?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Rolled buttercream or rolled fondant is a bit of a chore to make at home. I suggest buying premade and spending your time on the decorations.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Satin Ice makes a very smooth rolled fondant.

<Toni> baking911.com has a lot of info on rolled buttercream.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> My preference is for traditional buttercream. Yummy and pretty.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Kudos to you Judiaann.

<DeeH> I had better luck making marzipan type animals with it but it could just be me. J It did crimp well.

<TinaFCI> I would think it would taste very grainy and would also leave a film on your tongue.

<ChefARA> Buttercream must have butter, period. Traditional buttercream is my favorite, with marzipan a close second, lined with buttercream.

<Toni> Do you use only butter in all your cakes, etc?

<Sarabeth_Levine> I am a real butter girl. Nothing but the best flavor and the texture of buttercream can’t be beat.

<DeeH> Here in Louisiana though it can get tricky working with all butter, but I hate using Crisco.

<DeeH> I agree. I prefer traditional buttercream.

<kdavis> I just really need to practice getting my buttercream smooth.

<kdavis> Is there a certain brand of butter that you use?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Land of Lakes is nice for the home cook. Sweet only.

<kdavis> Unsalted?

<Sarabeth_Levine> Yes.

<barb> Do you have any favorite premium butters?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Plugra is nice.

<Sarabeth_Levine> A little gamey for baking.

<Toni> WalMart carries both Plugra.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Cabot is nice and it’s from Vermont!

<Sarabeth_Levine> A good choice.

<JerseyCakes> Hey, can I ask a pie question?

<JerseyCakes> Has anyone ever made a lemon meringue pie and put a slice of cake on top of the lemon filling?

<Sarabeth_Levine> No, but it sounds nice.

<ChefARA> No, why would you do that? To keep meringue from weeping? There are other ways to do that.

<JerseyCakes> I just thought it was unusual.

<Ginny> JerseyCakes: Yes, I have seen that done with lemon meringue pie.

<JerseyCakes> I worked with a man who insisted it was made that way and any good baker would know this.

<JerseyCakes> Has anyone ever heard of doing this?

<kdavis> No, JerseyCakes, but you should try it, sounds good.

<ChefARA> Never saw that.

<JerseyCakes> I have been baking for 20 some odd years and never heard of this.

<ChefARA> I line my baked pie shell with a thin brushing of lemon preserves to prevent the crust from getting soggy and that adds even more lemony flavor.

<Ginny> I think the theory is that it helps to keep everything from “weeping.”

<JerseyCakes> Yes.

<JerseyCakes> Thanks.

<ChefARA> But the cake would get soggy from the custard.

<Sarabeth_Levine> Meringue weeps. That’s the story of it. . . especially in humidity.

<Ginny> It does get a little soggy but it does add a difference to the pie.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I never heard of this either. Maybe he was just pulling your leg. J

<JerseyCakes> True.

<Ginny> I find if I whip my egg white at a little slower speed and a little longer I get a more “solid” meringue

<Ginny> Nice and creamy too.

<barb> I had a great desert in Barcelona. The inside had pastry cream and the slice of cake outside had blow torched meringue. Yum.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> The great thing about food is there are no rules. Make what you like and eat what makes you happy.

<Ginny> Yes.

<JerseyCakes> And get fat doing it too.

<JerseyCakes> Hee hee hee.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I have a theory that guilt adds pounds so eat with a smile on your face and don’t feel guilty.

<JerseyCakes> But at least ya enjoyed yourself getting there.

<ChefARA> Love that theory, Judiaann.

<Ginny> Good theory, Judiaann.

<JerseyCakes> I like that.

<JerseyCakes> J

<Sarabeth_Levine> Bakers are not allowed to feel guilty.

<JerseyCakes> Never do.

<Sarabeth_Levine> If you don’t taste you will never be a great chef.

<JerseyCakes> I love to bake, create new things always.

<JerseyCakes> It’s fun to see what you can create with your mind.

<Sarabeth_Levine> One last tip. Once you get the basics down the sky is the limit. It’s always fun to experiment.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Okay, unfortunately we’re out of time. Thank you all for joining us today.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> A transcript of this chat, along with all the others will be available on our site.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Sarabeth, thank you for joining us today and THANKS for all your wonderful tips and suggestions. Happy baking everyone!

<Sarabeth_Levine> Visit website www.sarabeth.com.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Please join us for our next chat on Sept. 22 nd when we’ll be chatting with the bakers of Whole Foods Market.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> For anyone who hasn’t visited one of Sarabeth’s locations, they’re not to be missed!

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