PastryScoop.com Wedding Cake Chat Series

Ron Ben-Israel of Ron Ben-Israel Cake
June 22, 2005

<Kate_PastryScoop> Hi everyone! Hi Chef Ron! Thanks for chatting with us today!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Hello everyone!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Welcome to today's chat with Ron Ben-Israel. Please feel free to ask your cake questions.

<kermit> Hi!

<baking911> Hi.

<Justcakes> Good morning!

<rierie> Hi!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Thanks for giving me a lunch break guys!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> What, no questions today?

<theqnb> Hello!

<Hvncreations> Hello.

<kermit> Yes!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Shoot!

<Kudeza> Ron. I would like to start my own wedding cake business but don't know how to begin. Do you have any ideas you can share?

<LoRita> I'm curious about your formal education. I understand that you apprenticed in France. Did you have any other educational training (i.e., art classes)?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I went to art school for four years. My parents were graphic designers and artists. I studied with Betty Van Norstrand in New York.

<cathyscakes> Your roses are beautiful. Did Betty Van Norstrand teach you those?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I learned everything from Betty Van Norstrand and then continued practicing.

<meemielala> Did you have a formal business plan when you started out or did you just wing it as you went along?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I have learned the business side as I went along. Dorothy, the founder and owner of The FCI, recommended that I should take some advanced business courses.

<kermit> In this industry you can't just learn. It's a trial and error thing and also tons of practice!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> As for a business plan, I had none. I started small and grew from there. Luckily, I had a lot of baking experience so I rented spaces at night from other bakers.

<theqnb> I'm artistic, but I find it frustrating when I can't get what's in my head translated to the final product.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Practice makes perfect. Over the years, I've learned to deal with my own frustration and be more patient. Cake decorating is all about self-improvement!

<Snailerella> Hi Ron. I'm wondering how you go about assembling your staff? Do you hire people who already know cakes, recent culinary grads with limited knowledge, or do you prefer to hire people who know very little and train them as you go along?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Most all of our employees are graduates of culinary schools. The majority are from The FCI where I teach. Some come from other schools after completing an internship with us.

<Snailerella> Do you really recommend this as a way to seek out new talent?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I prefer people who've apprenticed with me beforehand. I rarely find personnel that are pretrained. Even graduates of culinary school need to do their "stage."

<cathyscakes> How large a staff do you have?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I have nine full-time employees and we supplement with interns. In an average week, we'll have a total of 13 workers.

<Laurie> With a staff of 9-13, how much of each cake do you delegate and how much do you insist on doing yourself?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Laurie, I get my hands in everything. However, at this point I won't be able to operate at this level without my trusted employees and students.

<meemielala> Do you design all of the cakes or do you have other people on staff to help in that task?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> By now, I have a very talented staff. All were trained by me. I love when they continue in my vision and develop their own ideas. Most of the good ideas come from mistakes.

<kermit> It is great to find someone that is willing to teach and also to let one develop one's own ideas. I am tired of working for people that are so selfish in regards to sharing knowledge.

<kermit> Ron, baking is also my life. It is awesome that you share the knowledge. There should be more people like you.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I prefer to work in a team spirit. After awhile, I would have killed myself without help.

<kermit> So great that you let your staff develop!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I love teaching. It's great to take a break from the bakery and have all these enthusiastic students in class. And The FCI treats me so nice. They call me "master chef Ron."

<Laurie> How do I become one of your interns?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> For internship information, email charlie@weddingcakes.com.

<jastaus> Thanks for the internship info, Ron!

<Tracii> When is your next demo at The FCI? I missed the last one, but my partner in crime, Jen from She Takes The Cake, was there and rubbed my nose in it that I missed it!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> My next demo at The French Culinary Institute in New York City is on Tuesday, July 5th. However, it's limited to FCI students and alumni.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> The topic is going to be: "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Wedding Cakes (And Were Afraid To Ask)."

<rierie> Are incoming students not allowed at the demos either? I have been accepted for the pastry program but for the June 2006 semester.

<TinaFCI> As an incoming student, we should be able to squeeze you into the demo.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Most of The FCI demos are limited to students and alumni, but the workshops at our PastryScoop conferences are open to the public.

<Caris> I went to PastryScoop's 2nd Annual Passion for Pastry Conference and I took the class with you. Will you be teaching any other classes soon?

<NhumiSD> Judiaann, would you consider doing longer classes at the Passion for Pastry conference?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Thank you for attending our last conference. Our next one will be on Sunday, October 16th. We are always looking for ways to improve our events. Feel free to email your suggestions to info@pastryscoop.com. We'd love to hear from you.

<Brenda> Is there a fee to attend a workshop/conference?

<Kate_PastryScoop> Yes, our conference workshops are two hours in length and cost $50 each.

<Brenda> Are your demos ever open to the public or members of the wedding industry?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Ron's demos with PastryScoop.com are always open to the general public.

<Caris> Thanks Judiaann, I'll be waiting for the next conference.

<kermit> I've been to both of the pastry conferences.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Kermit, thank you for supporting PastryScoop.com!

<kermit> I love it Judiaann. Make more! I know you guys probably have your hands full with the school, but there are many of us wanting to continue our education!

<LoriV> Ron, do you ever do demos out on the West Coast?

<Tracii> Any plans on doing a demo in Canada?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Thanks for the interest in my demonstrations. I don't make my living from demonstrating. Rather, my main interest is baking cakes. I demo as part of my commitment to The French Culinary Institute in New York City. I believe in that environment and it's only two blocks from my bakery.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Ron volunteers his time and energy to do demos and chats for PastryScoop.com.

<Jef6> Do you use a convection or regular oven?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Convection oven with two fan speeds.

<baking911> Do you reduce the oven heat when doubling or tripling a cake recipe?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> The larger the cake, the lower the temperature. Consult The Cake Bible by Rose Levy Berenbaum.

<baking911> I looked in The Cake Bible, but it seems as though she recommends the same oven temperature?

<Ron_Ben-Israel>The Cake Bible is very good for the theory of baking. Rose decreases the amount of baking powder in larger cakes and explains why. Lowering the over temperature is a dirty trick, but it works.

<Caris> I have a recipe for an 8-inch round cake but I want to make a 14-inch by 2-inch deep cake. How many times am I supposed to double the recipe?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Check out our pan volume conversion chart on PastryScoop.com in the "Look It Up" section. It provides information to calculate how much batter is needed for different pan sizes.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Ron, I love your white chocolate buttercream recipe... so smooth and so delicious.

<meemielala> Are you willing to share your white chocolate buttercream recipe? It sounds fantastic!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>The recipe was printed in a Weddings issue of Martha Stewart Living. It's worth looking for.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I'll ask Judiaann to post my recipe on PastryScoop.com soon.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>I'll include the recipe for Ron's white chocolate buttercream in these chat transcripts.

<Hvncreations> Thanks. That'll be great!

<sofi> What kind of cake do you use/bake?

<mohawksRgr8> Do you prefer a light delicate cake or a heavier pound cake for your really big cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I always prefer a light and moist cake to a heavy one.

<Sindy04> Ron, I was curious... which is more popular for you—genoise or milk sponge cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Most of our cakes are based on traditional genoise bases with a lot of tweaks I learned over time.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> We also use nut pastes, chocolate ganaches, fruit reductions, and conserves.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I love to study and convert recipes by Julia Childs and Maida Heater. All their books are priceless!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>For those of you who have not had the pleasure... Ron's cakes are as delicious as they are beautiful!

<K8> I like to bake in advance a bit. Do you freeze cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> In pastry, you can freeze some elements such as cake slices (wrapped), buttercream, fruit, etc. I don't freeze completed cakes. The cakes may actually develop a crack as they expand and retract with the temperature. Also, when delivering, the outside may get too soft, while the inside stays frozen.

<Tracii> What temperature do you set your refrigerators?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Fridge temperature is between 33ºF to 35ºF which is lower than the Department of Health requirement, but above freezing.

<sunny2> How do you keep the moisture down when you refrigerate cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Very good question regarding moisture in commercial refrigeration.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Most refrigerators are designed to produce moisture and keep foods fresh. Consult an experienced technician who can install a system that will lower the moisture content effectively. It will cost, but will be worth it.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Here at the studio, we also run the air conditioning 24/7 to keep the flowers dry. Also, our refrigerators are kept low-moisture so the flowers don't melt.

<sunny2> Thanks Ron for answering the refrigerator question as I have been struggling with mine. I guess a phone call is needed soon!

<Hvncreations> Can you tell me a little about covering a board with fondant?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Simple. Cover the board with a smooth layer of fondant. It has to be a wooden board.

<Hvncreations> When using a cake board, should I use a little piping gel first?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I brush on piping gel so it adheres. And it has to dry overnight before the cake gets stacked on top.

<lori> Hi. Do you ever cover a board with royal icing or do you always use fondant?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I like to match the board to the cake. Fondant cake gets a fondant board.

<LoRita> Do you prefer using fondant to buttercream on your cakes?

<Brenda> I was wondering the same thing about the fondant trend. I was talking to somebody recently and while they love the look of a fondant cake, they prefer a cake they can actually eat (buttercream) as most people peel off the fondant to eat the cake.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I don't believe you can present a real buttercream cake for 10 hours in room temperature. It will get too soft and oily. I would hate, hate, hate to stabilize it with powdered sugar, gelatin, or vegetable shortening.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Therefore, we ice all our cakes in Swiss meringue buttercream and add the thinnest possible outside layer of fondant. Additionally, the cakes get chilled in the walk-in overnight.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Swiss meringue buttercream is great—easy to make and easy to use.

<mohawksRgr8> What do you think of the whole fondant trend? Do you see it going back to buttercream anytime soon if only for the flavor?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Fondant has a very neutral taste (a lot like a marshmallow). Also, it should be rolled thin so that by the time each guest gets a slice, it's just a whisper of fondant.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I believe fondant can be delicious in small doses. When it's thin and over rich buttercream, I have clients raving. But, and that's a big BUT, I speak of cakes that have been refrigerated. That way the fondant does not harden, and it melts in your mouth!

<LoriV> How thin do you roll out the fondant for cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I roll fondant to about 1/16 of an inch.

<rierie> There is a recipe for marshmallow fondant that people often prefer over regular fondant. Have you tried this? How does it actually hold up?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>From my own experience, a quality commercial fondant is far superior to homemade for consistency and texture.

<kermit> Have you used the new Satin Ice colored products for your flowers?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I use Satin Ice fondant exclusively and love their new colored fondants. Very intense!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> And your hands stay clean as you don't have to mix the color manually.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>We like Satin Ice too.

<meemielala> Ron, I have had problems lately with my fondant "bubbling." Originally, I thought it was due to either not smoothing it enough or that the cake was not settled before I iced it. These are HUGE air pockets that form minutes to hours after the fondant has been applied. Is it a humidity problem? Maybe I'm over smoothing and heating/melting the buttercream too much? Maybe I'm putting too much buttercream on the cake before applying fondant?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I understand minute air pockets in fondant cakes. Those can be eliminated with a tiny needle prick. However, it sounds as if your cake keeps changing shape underneath.

<kermit> I have a cake to do in Florida this coming September. The bride wants "rhinestones" on it. Considering the weather, should I use isomalt?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Isomalt "gems" is a good solution for humid weather.

<kermit> Thanks.

<Brenda> Hi Ron. I watched you on the new episode of Martha Stewart Weddings. The flowers you make are absolutely beautiful.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Thank you.

<dolph> Hello Ron. I am a pastry chef in western Pennsylvania. I've been doing gum paste flowers for some time now. I get beautiful flowers, but I feel I need to make them more realistic. Any suggestions?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I have no secrets in turning sugar flowers realistic. It just takes study and practice. Of course, if you have a master teacher like I had in Betty Van Norstrand, the information is invaluable.

<Caris> Do you or can you use fondant for making flowers or only sugar paste or gum paste?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Only the so-called "gum paste." I prefer the term "sugar dough" or "sugar paste." I don't believe fondant is suitable for making realistic and delicate flowers.

<kermit> How about fondant mixed with chocolate plastic for flowers?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> For thin and realistic flowers, I can only recommend what I personally use ("gum paste/sugar paste"). However, I love marzipan and chocolate as mediums as well.

<Tracii> You have a cake on the cover of Modern Bride Reception Style Winter/Spring 2005 that has pink striping and GORGEOUS peonies! What type of cutter did you use for that?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> For the peony cake, I used peony cutters from Creative Cutters in combination with Sunflower Sugar Art.

<dolph> When coloring gum paste flowers, do you favor any particular medium or application?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I generally use very concentrated paste colors and sometimes make my own solutions from powdered pigments (not dusting powders).

<meemielala> So are you using powdered pigments for dusting instead of petal dust or for just coloring your gumpaste?

<dolph> Powdered pigments? Could you explain? Where are they available—places like Beryl's?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Powdered pigments are raw colors as opposed to dusting powders that have whitening and diluting agents. Beryl's carries some and recommends them for use with chocolate.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I prefer raw food pigments for coloring. I tone them down with cornstarch.

<kermit> Are the colors that use available to the public or pastry chefs or are they for your use only?

<dolph> How often do you use an airbrush for gumpaste flowers? Any good references for techniques?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> For coloring sugar flowers, I use an airbrush, dry dusting powders, and paint with liquid colors. There are videos and DVDs about airbrushing in general and I've applied the same techniques to sugar.

<theqnb> When you say liquid color, is there a specific brand/type that you use?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> A better than average color company is AmeriColor. I do have colors made for me special order. Perhaps I will be available in the future, but right now I'm totally committed to the cakes.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I also recommend Scott Clark Woolley in New York at www.cakesbydesign.cc (note: that's a .cc).

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I forgot to mention a great source for tools and also for his own books—Nicholas Lodge in Atlanta.

<donei> Do you prefer sugar pastes made with CMC (carbomethylcellulose) or tragacanth?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> My sugar pastes for decorations and flowers incorporate both CMC (gum processed in the laboratory) and tragacanth (natural gum).

<donei> When you say that you incorporate both CMC and gum tragacanth, do you mean that you use a mixture of the two or do different decorations call for a different mediums? I've been using a 50/50 mixture of both for my flowers and it seems to work for me.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I make a variety of sugar pastes for different uses. Some are100% CMC and some are with different proportions.

<donei> Thanks for answering my questions regarding CMC and tragacanth. It's very much appreciated.

<meemielala> Ron, I've tried the technique in Alan Dunn's books for adding sheen to gumpaste flowers which entails steaming the finished piece. However, I have not had success in doing this. It seems the flowers lose their sheen after a few hours. What do you suggest as an alternative?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I do steam leaves and flowers and the sheen seems to last for a few weeks. You can also use confectionery glaze to achieve a permanent sheen.

<meemielala> Have you tried to spray on the confectionary glaze or do you recommend brushing it on?

<dolph> Confectionary glaze, could you explain?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Confectionery glaze is a liquid available through restaurant suppliers. I dilute it with 50% alcohol and dip leaves and such for a permanent sheen.

<Justcakes> I love all the lace pieces on your cakes. Now that Sugar Bouquets has closed, where are you getting your lace presses?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I make most of our presses and molds from silicone. However, you can get some from Sunflower Sugar Art, Beryl's, and Creative Cutters. They all have websites.

<pstry8> Ron, some of your cakes look like they are held up by air. I'm always wowed by your talent.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I love that description "held by air..."

<K8> What kind of dowel do you use?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Wooden dowels. If you are paranoid, you can insert the dowels into plastic drinking straws.

<Hvncreations> I'm getting ready to start making my first dummy cakes. Should I be using artificial icing or will royal icing work to display buttercream cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I don't like to frost cakes in royal icing. All our dummy cakes are covered in rolled Fondant.

<pstry8> Do you have a secret for making the individual wedding cakes faster? They take me forever!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Are you making them assembly line style? That should speed up the process.

<pstry8> Yes, but I'm still covering each little cake with fondant and then icing them which takes me 2 to 3 days to do 100.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Individual wedding cakes do take forever to make and are rarely profitable for me to do. That's how I got to be bald!

<donei> lol

<pstry8> lol

<theqnb> lol

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>With practice comes speed, but be sure to charge appropriately for your time and labor.

<Brenda> How many cakes on average do you make in a week?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Fifteen cakes a week in the season.

<choc> Do you charge the same for birthday cakes as for wedding cakes?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> It fluctuates according to difficulty. Some birthday cakes will end up being more expensive than wedding cakes.

<Tracii> When you display your works in magazines, brides will inevitably want them copied. How do you feel about this?

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Wow, copying is a loaded question....

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>In the specialty cake business, it's very important to establish your own personal style. I'm sure many brides want exact copies of cakes they see in magazines, but as an artist, it's important to find your own interpretation and unique spin.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> I believe we all do variations on each others work, but isn't it better to continue developing one's own style?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>I agree. Be unique. Be creative. And find your own vision and you will find success.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>That sounds a bit like a fortune cookie. Ha ha.

<Tracii> Yes. I agree, but brides are... ummm... how do I say it politely... finicky?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Bridezilla???

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>We love brides here.

<pstry8> I love brides. It's usually the mother I would like to kick in the pants.

<Tracii> Ha ha ha

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>I'm glad you all have such a good sense of humor.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Unfortunately, our time is almost up. Ron, THANK YOU again for taking time out of your busy day to chat with us!

<LoRita> Ron, FCI, and PastryScoop: thank you so much for orchestrating the wedding cake series chats. Ron, much continued success and inspiration for your beautiful cakes. You are truly gifted and unselfish for sharing your tips of the trade. FCI and Pastry Scoop, thank you for giving us access to such high-profiled pastry artists. I hope to visit The FCI in the near future.

<Laurie> I am a cake decorator at WalMart. I WILL get to The FCI eventually and I hope to meet you, intern with you, and learn a lot from you. You are truly talented. Thanks for doing this. You are the BEST!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Thank you!

<meemielala> Ron, thank you so much for your generosity and sharing such valuable information. You are an inspiration!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Yes, thank you all for joining us today. Be sure to check out Ron's website at www.weddingcakes.com.

<kermit> Ron, thanks sooooooooo much and even though you don't make a living off the demos, please don't stop giving them.

<Jef6> Thank you chef Ron. This was great!

<Brenda> Thank you for your time and talent.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Please be sure to check back in a few weeks to read the transcripts from this chat along with the others in our wedding cake series.

<K8> This was so awesome! Thanks so much!!!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Thank you for answering all our questions Ron!

<Justcakes> Thank you Ron!

<esty> Thanks Ron

<donei> Thank you very much!

<choc> Thanks!

<sunny2> Thanks Ron!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Have a great day everyone! Happy baking!

<Caris> Thanks Ron. I'll be waiting for your next conference. Thanks Judiaann and Tina. Excellent chat.

<rierie> Thanks!

<dolph> Ron, thank you for your valuable time and expertise.

<TinaFCI> Thanks to Ron and everyone for joining us today!

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Thanks guys for joining. I have to go and bake some more now...

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Thank you all again.

<kermit> Me too!

<kermit> Bye! Thanks again!

<NhumiSD> Thank you Ron for all your tips.

<rierie> Thanks! See you at The FCI next year.

<Ron_Ben-Israel> Have a great summer season and dazzle us all with your creations!

<Caris> Bye everyone, and thanks again.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>We will post this transcript along with the two others from our wedding cake series in the next few weeks.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Thanks again everyone. We're closing the chat now. Bye Ron!

RON'S WHITE CHOCOLATE BUTTERCREAM
Makes 8 1/2 cups

½ pound white chocolate, chopped
9 large egg whites
1 ½ cups sugar
¾ teaspoon cream of tartar
1 ½ pounds (6 sticks) unsalted butter, softened

1. Melt chocolate in a heatproof bowl placed over a pan of simmering water. Stir occasionally with a rubber spatula; do not allow to burn. Set chocolate aside to cool.
2. Place egg whites, sugar, and cream of tartar in a large stainless-steel bowl over gently simmering water. Whisk constantly until sugar melts and mixture is very thin (120ºF on a candy thermometer). Remove from heat and transfer mixture to the bowl of a standing mixing. Using a whisk attachment, whip on high speed until stiff peaks form, 3 to 5 minutes. Continue whipping on low speed until mixture is cool, about 15 minutes.
3. Beat in butter on low speed using a paddle attachment. The mixture will look "curdled" before coming together. Keep beating on low speed until smooth (a high speed incorporates too much air).
4. Gradually beat in white chocolate, mixing until smooth. If buttercream begins to separate, rebeat to maintain texture.

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