PastryScoop 2005 Fall Baking Series Chat Transcript

Warren Brown of CakeLove
September 28, 2005

<Kate_PastryScoop> Hi, everybody. Welcome to today's chat with Warren Brown. Warren, thank you so much for chatting with us today.

<akfilmguy> Hello.

<equality5271> Hi.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Hi, Warren! Thanks for joining us today.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Does anyone have any questions to start?

<Jackie> When I make pound cake, it does not have a crack on top of it once it is done. The same recipe made by other people gave a crack or slit on top. Please advise.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Jackie: I've realized the same with pound cakes. Some recipes form a nice round dome with a crack down the center and others don't. It just depends on the recipe.

<warren_cake_love> The cracking issues can take some detail to examine, but could be attributable to oven temperature too high, too much chemical leavener, too much aeration.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I'd be more concerned if a recipe that always formed a nice crack didn't on a specific occasion. That might be the result of some mixing or measuring problem.

<Jackie> Hi Judiaann: So what should I do in order to have the crack on the pound cake?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Jackie, I would recommend finding a recipe that creates that result from the start.

<equality5271> I was wondering if you went to school or took any classes or are you self taught?

<warren_cake_love> Baking questions first and then I'll dive into the business ones.

<warren_cake_love> Wow—OK, I love the fact that you all are asking questions. I'm a first timer for chats so this may take a moment for me. And please disregard spelling errors unless of course they're really bad.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> No prob. just answer as many questions as you can.

<warren_cake_love> For baking, every baker can get different results. I know that for me the most important thing is to measure accurately the mass or volume of ingredients and then use an artful hand in mixing batter.

<warren_cake_love> Mass always for dry ingredients in large volume, like flour, sugar, butter. Volume for liquid measures, like milk, cream, liqueurs.

<warren_cake_love>Art of the Cake gives a great discourse on ingredients through individual recipes. Particularly, he uses potato starch extensively which is rare and I think a great secret ingredient.

<warren_cake_love> It's a light starch, with clean taste, highly absorbent, low cooking temperature, and no gritty finish.

<baileyjuice>Art of the Cake is a recipe book?

<warren_cake_love>Art of the Cake is a recipe book by William Morrow publishers. It's out of print, I think, but should be available maybe from Amazon.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Can you tell our members a little about your new show Sugar Rush?

<akfilmguy> What is Sugar Rush about?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Sugar Rush is a new show that's going to be on the Food Network.

<warren_cake_love> Sure, on the show, it's a 30 minute show that will feature me on a quest to learn more about pastry, desserts, and the secrets pastry chefs use to make their wonderful treats.

<warren_cake_love> It premiers on October 26th at 9:30pm on Food Network. There will be 13 episodes; we're in the middle of production right now and come back to NYC in mid-October.

<Yankee> I am so glad they are bringing a baking and pastry show to Food Network. There are so few of them.

<dsbyna> I agree!

<Peg> I'm a cake designer and chocolatier and I was so thrilled to see the show being put on.

<warren_cake_love> The network is very excited to have a dessert show on and they know that viewers like them. I'm psyched!

<baileyjuice> Are you nervous to have your own show?

<warren_cake_love> I'm not nervous to have a show—I'm thrilled. I'm a little anxious to see/get the feedback, but I fret over things I shouldn’t anyway.

<dsbyna> You will be GREAT!

<martha> Hi! I was wondering since you use all butter, how do you keep cakes from drying out?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Martha: Are you referring to cakes that have been iced or un-iced?

<martha> Both, but especially un-iced.

<warren_cake_love> Cakes drying out—this is a focus question.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Allow your cake to cool but then WRAP well in plastic wrap. In fact, double wrap it and if you plan to freeze it, double wrap in plastic and then foil to keep the moisture out.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Any exposure to the air will dry out a cake so be sure to cover it in buttercream, icing, or frosting before letting it sit out in the open.

<warren_cake_love> We use all butter. Never vegetable oil or shortening. We also insist on using a variety of other non-traditional ingredients that other bakeries won't use.

<Peg> Where do you find most of the natural ingredients you mention in the commercials?

<warren_cake_love> Natural ingredients are not too difficult to come by from vendors. Maybe I should correct that.

<warren_cake_love> We source from all over the country for our products and that takes a lot of time to do. No one single vendor seems to ever have everything we use.

<warren_cake_love> For example, we get sugar for cookies from India Tree in Seattle because they're the only ones we can get dark muscovado from in quantities and flavor that we find acceptable.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> For noncommercial baking, Whole Foods Market is a great source for natural organic ingredients.

<warren_cake_love> We use all-purpose flour in our cakes.

<baileyjuice> So cake flour is not necessarily better for cakes than all-purpose?

<warren_cake_love> Cake flour has an insufficient protein content to give the flavor I desire and the bite resistance that helps signal a cake will stand up on its own.

<warren_cake_love> I hate it when a cake crumbles onto itself after being cut. That has happened to me consistently with cake flour cake layers because there isn't enough gluten to form a structure.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Baileyjuice: The type of flour you use depends on the cake. Some cakes require a little more structure so that's where AP flour does the trick. Other recipes might require a very tender crumb in which case cake flour might be a better option. In either case, always sift your flour and use a light hand when mixing.

<baileyjuice> Oh, okay. Thanks!

<warren_cake_love> We use fresh berries and freshly made curds in our fillings.

<warren_cake_love> We steep nuts into the milk to make pastry creams which serve as the base for some of our buttercreams.

<warren_cake_love> We use milk in some cakes, but most use a combo of a heavier fat based liquid dairy: cream, half & half, etc.

<dsbyna> Is it true that you spent vacations on St. Simons Island, Georgia?

<warren_cake_love> I have gone to St. Simon's Island, but I've spent more time in Hilton Head. It's very nice there.

<Jackie> When making chiffon cake, should we beat the egg yolks, oil, sugar, water, or fruit juice together until pale or just to blend all together before adding flour? Then fold into egg white?

<warren_cake_love> Sorry, chiffon cakes are not my specialty. I don't bake with oil.

<CJ> I've heard rumors of you starting a cooking school. Is that true?

<warren_cake_love> Sorry, no cooking school in the works.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Any plans for a cookbook?

<warren_cake_love> Yes. It will be titled CakeLove and focuses on taking the mystery out of cakes from scratch.

<warren_cake_love> I hope to have the book out this spring, which is a real push but we'll see.

<sweetpie> What type of buttercream do you use? Swiss meringue?

<warren_cake_love> Italian meringue buttercream.

<warren_cake_love> We use a close derivative of Cake Bible's cooked meringue buttercream for most cakes.

<warren_cake_love> We also make a unique (CakeLove unique) pastry cream-based buttecream.

<warren_cake_love> I will cover each type in the book

<nainoa> What amount of butter per cup of flour do you recommend to achieve a moist vanilla cake?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Nainoa: It's difficult to give a straight ratio of butter to flour because there are other factors that will determine the moistness of a cake such as the type of liquid, the amount of sugar, etc.

<warren_cake_love> One of the things I've learned that I think matters a lot in baking cakes is to balance the amount of starch that s present relative to the protein. We start with AP flour and add potato starch to essentially thin out the amount of protein.

<equality5271> Do you have any advice on making a tilted, tiered cake?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> equality5271: Be sure to secure each layer with dowels.

<warren_cake_love> I'm of the school that doesn't make heavily decorated or designed cakes. All of the cakes at CakeLove are round, layered, 6", 9", 12", or 14".

<warren_cake_love> I choose to make this style because the rate of production is easier to deal with with non-decorated cakes than ones with piped-on borders, fondant, marzipan, sugar flowers, border work, etc.

<equality5271> Thanks.

<Yankee> Is there a book out that explains the science of baking, so if I wanted to develop my own recipes, I would have an idea of the correct proportion of ingredients?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yankee: McGee's is a good food science book but I often find it easier to start from a good recipe and make small adjustments while taking good notes. I almost always tweak recipes to my personal preference.

<warren_cake_love> Also, the fact of environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, etc) means that certain ingredients have to be used, or should be used to defy gravity, melting, etc. Those ingredients, I don't much like the outcome of their flavor.

<warren_cake_love> Harold McGee's book is great for background research and understanding what is going on. It's pretty necessary if you want to create recipes and rely on them

<warren_cake_love> My aim is to make my book one where people can see the logic and the steps behind baking from scratch so they can have the confidence and capabilitiy to create new recipes.

<warren_cake_love> Cakes as we know them are relatively new. Not until electricity did we get mixers that give aeration in the way that we enjoy the cakes we have. There are exceptions, but I think that cakes have a long way to go before we can say we're finished with development.

<Yankee> Thanks!

<nainoa> What icing is the best for wedding cakes?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Nainoa: I would recommend buttercream (Swiss or Italian) for wedding cakes. It produces a lovely smooth finish and it tastes much better than anything that contains vegetable shortening.

<martha> The lore is that you first started selling cakes from your apartment. How did you do it? Was it just word of mouth?

<warren_cake_love> I started the business alone in my kitchen and always saw the focus of my business as birthdays, anniversaries, dinner parties, and just simple indulgence.

<simplym322> Did you attend culinary school? I am currently an "older" student and hope to someday start my own business. Are there business classes I should consider?

<warren_cake_love> I did not go to culinary school. I went to the bookstore, pulled all of the cake/baking cookbooks, found the common denominators in the bibliography, and purchased those.

<sasha55> How do you stiffen whipped dairy cream?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Sasha: Do you want to know how to make whipped cream or how to stabilize cream that has been whipped?

<sasha55> I want to know how to stabilize whipped dairy cream.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Sasha: There are various commercial whip cream stabilizers out there but they only work to a certain degree. The whipped cream must remain chilled in order for it not to weep or lose shape.

<Lori> Can you tell us what a typical day at CakeLove is like for you?

<warren_cake_love> Typical day—I'm no longer in daily production, more just research. My day is consumed with administrative items, meeting people and discussing with them how they can help CakeLove grow securing contracts for items and services (vendors), media interviews, taping for the show, paying bills (no glamour there!), and shaking hands.

<warren_cake_love> When I opened CakeLove I worked just about everyday, but from the outset I had a great team that helped me then and continue to today bake, serve, and enjoy being in the bakery and Love Cafe (opened two years ago).

<warren_cake_love> None of it I could do alone, and I'm constantly amazed at how dedicated and loyal everyone that chose to come to CakeLove and Love Cafe are.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> They don't call it CakeLove and the Love Cafe for nothing.

<sandy> What is the cake you sell most in your store?

<warren_cake_love> Most popular: strawberries and cream, three layers vanilla cake, vanilla buttercream, and fresh strawberries that are sugared and sit overnight.

<taraneh> Hi, Warren. I am very excited about your book. I just moved away from DC and I miss your crunchy feet.

<loribaker21> What are crunchy feet?

<taraneh> Mini pound cakes with flavor kick combos.

<warren_cake_love> Crunchy feet are poundcakes baked in small brioche pans with lots of different flavors like orange, mango and cayenne, chocolate, almond, orange; and more.

<simplym322> Do you bake cheesecakes as well?

<warren_cake_love> We do bake cheesecakes. Please see the site for descriptions. They’re not our focus.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> ­www.cakelove.com.

<mowenbrown> Warren, you have amazing flavor combinations in your cakes and cupcakes (orange/mango with cayenne is my favorite). What do you think it takes to make a good combination, and how much experimentation do you have time to do?

<warren_cake_love> I focus on one or two flavors I want to highlight and build the product around that. Sometimes it's a cake, others a pastry cream.

<warren_cake_love> For me it's a matter of knowing the properties the item possesses and then harnessing that in the most effective format.

<warren_cake_love> Sounds odd for a baker to say, but fat interferes with favor so I want to try to balance and find an equilibrium in all of my products so that the flavor is clean, rich but light, and not confused.

<T3> Do you have any advice for lawyers who are trying to transition from law into the pastry field?

<warren_cake_love> Welcome from the legal field! I think you'll find this more immediately gratifying.

<warren_cake_love> Enjoy each moment and relish the fact that your work is going to make people happy.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> ...And cake certainly has a way of putting a smile on someone's face.

<sweetpie> Since you were a lawyer, education must be essential, why not pastry school?

<warren_cake_love> I was too tired of school to go back for another degree.

<Lori> Amen to that!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I'm sure that Warren would agree that it certainly couldn't hurt you. It depends on the individual and also how advanced your skills are coming into the field.

<sasha55> What types of frostings do you use on your cakes?

<warren_cake_love> Buttercreams on the cake vary but most are Italian Meringue.

<sweetpie> Vanilla buttercream—anything special besides vanilla? And good for what type of cake?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> You can make many types of buttercream from one basic recipe by adding flavored extracts, incorporating melted chocolate, peanut butter, etc.

<dsbyna> Any chance you will be attending the Chocolate Show in New York City in November?

<warren_cake_love> No, I won't be in the Chocolate Show.

<taraneh> Do you miss baking now that the business side has exploded?

<warren_cake_love> I do miss the baking, but really, the experimentation is enough.

<warren_cake_love> I'm currently working on a candy bar prototype.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Cool.

<warren_cake_love> I want something that is a firm bite, soft chew, and lingering flavor.

<taraneh> Warren is the Wonka of Cake.

<taraneh> There is currently a shortage of the soft-chew variety.

<taraneh> What about flavors?

<warren_cake_love> The chocolate I like the most is Cacao Barry. And I always use their 22-24% cocoa powder.

<nainoa> Do you recommend using buttermilk in a vanilla cake?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Nainoa: Buttermilk is great for Devil's Food cake.

<Lori> Does CakeLove do small batch baking or have you progressed into larger batches? If so how did you maintain the quality?

<warren_cake_love> The biggest bowl size we have is 40 quarts which we have used from the beginning.

<sweetpie> When will The FCI have more Essential of Pastry that can be taken in a few weeks so I can fly to NYC?

<TinaFCI> We have our next Essentials of Pastry class coming up in January.

<TinaFCI> It is still only available in the long form with 20 sessions.

<Jen> In order to fill large volume (for instance holiday orders) do you recommend pre-baking then freezing? Or do you think you lose quality of the baked goods?

<warren_cake_love> We don't freeze. You could and that works fine. Our cakes freeze fine and thaw fine, but we don't keep a freezer.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Jen: Many steps can be done ahead of time for holiday baking. For example, I'll be making all my pie dough in the next few weeks and freezing them.

<warren_cake_love> The quality can be compromised with freezing, but really it's a function of the product to start with and the handling during freezing. Carefully wrap as Judiaann suggested earlier.

<irnel> Can anyone tell me if its okay to leave a cake frosted with buttercream with a little bit of milk in room temperature for a few days?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Irnel: So long as the cake is not filled with an egg-based product such as pastry cream or curd, a cake can safely sit out at room temperature for a few days.

<irnel> Thanks, Judiaann

<warren_cake_love> I wouldn't leave frosting with milk at room temp for a few days. I've known people who get sick from cakes with that recipe.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Milk-based cakes: I agree. Better safe than sorry. More importantly, how does a cake sit out for a few days and not get eaten?

<chloelee55> LOL. That was my thought!

<warren_cake_love> We struggle with getting people to serve our products at room temperature. We have to fridge everything and when it's served many people are like "Yuck, it's cold."

<warren_cake_love> But, if we don't fridge then the fragile perishable items would go bad.

<warren_cake_love> So we're developing lots of signage and cute palm cards to gently remind our customers that CakeLove tastes 10,000 times better at room temp—a quote from a customer!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I agree. Always serve your cakes at the right temperature.

<Raina_PastryScoop> I went to a bakery recently that gave me printed instructions for reheating a warm chocolate cake, which I thought was a great idea.

<warren_cake_love> We're winding down?

<warren_cake_love> Sorry for all of the typos everyone.

<chloelee55> Hi, Warren! I can't believe I missed the chat!! :(

<warren_cake_love> Hi, welcome.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Sugar Rush will premier on 10/26 at 9:30pm on the Food Network. Everyone should set their Tivos!

<chloelee55> I can't wait for the show! What a great concept!

<chloelee55> You are definitely an inspiration for the second career people!!

<chloelee55> I am in PC Support now and hopefully baker in the future!

<Jen> What is the difference between whole milk and buttermilk when using in a cake recipe?

<warren_cake_love> We use only milk, but not in every recipe. I don't rely on the acid (?) found in buttermilk for a reaction to create CO 2 in reaction to baking soda.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Unfortunately, our time is almost up. Thank you all for being so patient with the technical problems. Great questions everyone.

<warren_cake_love> Looks like I've lost connection again. ARGH!

<sasha55> Thank you!!!

<chloelee55> :( I wish I got to you sooner!!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Thank you, Warren, for taking time out of your busy day to chat with us!

<Jen> Thank you! Can't wait to see your show!

<Yankee> Thanks so much, Warren!

<simplym322> Much success!

<chloelee55> Thanks, Warren! Good luck with everything!

<Lori> Thank you. Good luck with the show. I can't wait!

<taraneh> Happy experimenting. I look forward to new things.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Be sure to check out our next and final chat in the Fall Baking series on Wednesday, October 5th as we chat with pastry chef/owner Joanne Chang from Flour Bakery + Cafe in Boston. Same time. Same deal.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> And don't forget to check out Warren's website at ­www.cakelove.com­ and his new show on Food Network.

<dsbyna> Thanks, Warren, for your time, ideas, suggestions, new show, upcoming book, and I look forward to meeting you someday, perhaps on a book tour, or cooking class!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Thanks everyone! Happy Baking!

<warren_cake_love> Thanks to everyone on-line who came to the chat. I had a great time!

BACK TO CHATS