PastryScoop.com Spring Chat Series

Joan Nathan Chat Transcript
March 24, 2004

<Kate_PastryScoop> Today we're talking with cookbook author Joan Nathan about Passover desserts and treats.

<Danielle> How can I make my desserts for Passover rise using kosher ingredients?

<JoanNathan> You must first separate your eggs. Beat the whites to very stiff peaks. Central Europeans have used this kosher method in dessert leavening for ages. By using egg whites, beaten very stiff, you can have a wonderful rise in your cakes. The cakes tend to fall a bit using this method, but don't be alarmed.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Are eggs the only method to give "rise" in Passover baking?

<JoanNathan> You can buy baking powder that is kosher for Passover, but somehow I think it is considered "cheating." I would suggest using less egg yolks if you are concerned with the rise, but certainly use plenty of egg whites.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Joan, I've seen one of your recipes for Chremslach. What is that?

<JoanNathan> Chremslach is my favorite fritter recipe for Passover. Chremslach is an old German-Alsatian treat, one not made very often these days, but delicious nonetheless! A Chremslach contains matzoh, eggs, almonds and dried fruit and is fried like a doughnut. I serve mine with dried prunes and orange juice. We eat them at the Seder and for breakfast the next day.

<Kate_PastryScoop> I would love the recipe!

<JoanNathan> Found in my Jewish Cooking in America and my J ewish Holiday Kitchen cookbooks, the Chremslach recipe is: 3 matzohs, soaked and squeezed very dry

2 tablespoons currants
2 tablespoons chopped almonds
2 tablespoons apricots
3 large eggs, separated
1/4 cup matzoh meal
1/3 cup sugar
grated rind of 1 lemon
1 tablespoon lemon juice
oil for frying

Mix everything and fold in the egg whites. Let the mix sit in the refrigerator (don't worry; it doesn't hurt egg whites that have been beaten stiff). In tablespoon portions, shape and deep fry the batter in oil a few hours before the Seder. I crisp them up in the oven just before serving.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Can you make the Chremslach dough in advance and fry them at a later time? If so, how long in advance can you make the dough?

<JoanNathan> I wouldn't make the dough more than a few hours in advance, but feel free to try. My friend Ann Amernick, the pastry chef, says you can keep egg whites a day or two whipped in the fridge.

<tciccarini> Do you use seasonal fruits in your desserts?

<JoanNathan> I always have strawberries in at least one recipe and on the side. Strawberries are a symbol of spring. I usually make a frozen strawberry meringue torte!

<tciccarini> Have you had to change traditional recipes because you couldn't find the ingredients here in the USA?

<JoanNathan> I haven't really had to change the recipes. Sometimes we don't think as well as people in the past. Citron, for example. I wouldn't use that in a traditional recipe today. Most of the time my refined recipes use a different amount of eggs than the traditional recipes. I also alter recipes by cutting down on fat, except when good butter is around! As well, I like my recipes less sweet than the traditional 'old world' recipes require.

<Danielle> Are there any gluten-free recipes for Passover that taste good?

<JoanNathan> The Strawberry Meringue torte in Jewish Cooking in America is gluten-free. In fact, most Passover flourless tortes are!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Have you ever used soy flour in your recipes?

<JoanNathan> I have never used soy flour, but why not?! It, like almond flour, is kosher for Passover.

<JoanNathan> Please let me know if any of these things work. My email is 12nathan4221@aol.com

<Kate_PastryScoop> Joan, are there any Passover candies?

<JoanNathan> Yes indeed! There is Beet Eingemacht, which is like a candied beet preserve. There is also Carrot Eingemacht, as well as many other candies.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Joan, what is charoses?

<JoanNathan> Chaorses (or chaorset) is a fruit and nut paste, symbolic of the mortar that the Jews used when they were enslaved to build buildings in Egypt. Jews all over the world make charosets in different forms, depending on the ingredients available. I love it! It became part of the Seder during the Babylonian captivity and was a dipping sauce in the ancient world.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Do you serve charoses as is or do you incorporate it into other desserts?

<JoanNathan> I serve charoses as part of the Seder service before the meal. People eat it first with horseradish and matzoh and then just with matzoh. Leftover, I use charoses to stuff a chicken or turkey.

<JoanNathan> Shall I give you my favorite chocolate Passover recipes?!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes. We love chocolate here!

<JoanNathan> I'll give you a brownie recipe:

¾ cup unsalted butter or margarine
¾ cup sugar
5 eggs separated
6 ounces bittersweet chocolate
6 ounces finely ground almonds or almond flour
pinch of salt

Preheat oven to 350-degrees. Cream the butter and sugar together until light and fluffy. Add the egg yolks, one-by-one. Melt the chocolate over a double boiler. Cool and add to the butter mixture. Add the finely ground almonds (or almond flour). Beat the egg whites until stiff but not dry. Fold into the batter. Pour into a 9-inch square, greased baking tin. Bake for 45 minutes. Cool and cut into squares.

<gary> Where can I find quality Passover bulk chocolate?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> We have an extensive list of chocolate producers on PastryScoop.com under our "Look It Up" section (see chocolate chart ). I'm not sure which companies produce kosher for Passover chocolate, but I'm sure you could contact them and they can inform you of local vendors.

<JoanNathan> You can use Israeli chocolate. I know that Callebaut chocolate is kosher. Other chocolates for cooking at Passover include Liebers, Haddington Farms, Bartons, Empress Chocolate, Manhattan Fruitier and Elite.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Woolco, a wholesale distributor in New York City, lets people purchase in bulk at their warehouse. They carry Callebaut.

<JoanNathan> Callebaut is very good. It depends on how stringent you are in deciding what you will use.

<oohlaala> Is it worth the trouble to make your own matzoh? I thought about it last year, but didn't do it. And, thinking about this makes me wonder.

<JoanNathan> People always ask me that. You know, you can't get Passover flour commercially. If you could, then it would be okay to make matzoh. That said, if you don't care then why not, make matzoh! Somehow I would rather put my energies into making great desserts. In Eastern Europe, people would buy matzoh by the pound! They would go to a Passover baker who would make round matzoh for them. There were no square Manischewitz matzoh in those days! No machines! Matzoh meal came from leftover matzoh that was pounded in a large butter churn!

<Pastry101> Ingredients are so important. Do you have a good source either by mail or in NYC?

<JoanNathan> I would go to the kosher section of Fairway. Also, there is a good cooking store in Boro Park, Brooklyn for kosher cooking items (I can't remember the name!). Most products today are kosher, but not necessarily kosher for Passover.

<gormay> Is there a formula to substitute almond flour for regular flour in recipes?

<JoanNathan> I would suggest to use a ratio of 5/8 cup almond flour to 1 cup of regular flour. You can use that chocolate brownie recipe as a cake as well.

<gary> Do you make a 1:1 substitution of matzoh cake meal for regular flour?

<JoanNathan> I do not. I use 5/8 of a cup of matzoh cake meal to 1 cup of regular flour.

<gormay> How do you measure a 5/8 cup? Do you use a liquid measuring cup?

<JoanNathan> I actually measure 1/2 cup and then 2 tablespoons. You really have to experiment because flours are so different.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Which Passover dessert is your favorite?

<JoanNathan> My favorite Passover desserts are Almond-Lemon Torte, Chocolate Roll, Coconut-Walnut Torte with Orange Liqueur and Coconut Macaroons.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Joan, do you have any cooking demonstrations scheduled for the near future?

<JoanNathan> Yes. In fact, I just came back from the South Beach Festival where I did some Passover cooking - great fun! Today, I am doing a cooking demonstration for PBS right after this chat! It is a national show that airs weekly, though I am not sure when it will air. The topic is "Religion and Ethics"! In addition, I am going to be on Arthur Schwartz's show on Tuesday. In between all of these great opportunities, I am also working on a book on American food. For this reason, I am trying not to do too much!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Joan, I've seen recipes for Passover bagels. How do these compare to regular bagels?

<JoanNathan> They are not like bagels at all. Passover Rolls are also like the bagels. I make them every year. In process, they are like a gougere (a ring-shaped baked pastry)-cook the oil and water and beat together very well before adding the other ingredients. The recipe for Passover Rolls:

½ cup vegetable oil
1 cup water
½ teaspoon salt
1 cup matzoh meal
1 tablespoon sugar, or to taste
4 eggs

Preheat the oven to 375-degrees. Grease a cookie sheet. Bring the oil, water and salt to a boil. Add the matzoh meal and stir with a spoon. When the mixture becomes sticky, let it cool. Add the sugar and eggs (one by one), beating well after each addition. Dipping your hands in cold water first, take a tennis ball size portion of the dough and mold into a ball. Place on the cookie sheet. Repeat until all the dough is used up, dipping you hands in water before rounding each ball. Bake 20 minutes, until the balls puff up. Then turn down the oven to 325-degrees and bake another 30 minutes, until the balls are golden brown. You know, bringing out these old recipes like the Passover popovers, once a year, brings back lots of memories for me and creates memories for my children!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Any tips on keeping macaroons moist over the course of a few days?

<JoanNathan> I love to make macaroons and think that you should just keep them well covered. Ours don't last very long. Especially the coconut macaroons, covered in chocolate. The Coconut Macaroon recipe:

3 1/2 cups unsweetenened shredded coconut.
DO NOT USE SWEETENED COCONUT!
¼ cup matzoh cake meal
1 ¼ cups sugar
2 large eggs
1 egg white
4 oz. bittersweet chocolate
¼ cup water

Preheat oven to 325-degrees. Cover 2 baking sheets with parchment paper. Mix the coconut, matzoh cake meal, and 1 cup of the sugar together in a bowl. Add the eggs and egg white and mix with your fingers until well blended. Gently shape about two tablespoons of the dough into a pyramid and set on the baking sheet. Repeat with the remaining dough, leaving about 2 inches between each cookie. Bake 25 minutes. In a saucepan melt the chocolate with the water and remaining ¼ cup sugar. Bring to a boil then simmer slowly for a few minutes until the mixture starts to thicken. Let the chocolate cool slightly. Holding a macaroon with 2 fingers, dip half the cookie in chocolate so that it is half-black and half-white. Dry for a few minutes, tilted over a dish and place on wax paper. Repeat. This was my favorite cookie when I lived in Israel in the 1970's.

<JoanNathan> I want to share this recipe for an old Moroccan Torte. It takes about 10 minutes. I learned this from a cleaning lady in the early 70's in Jerusalem. When a friend tasted it for the first time, he said that it was better than sex!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Well, then we really need that recipe!

<JoanNathan> Moroccan Torte recipe:

6 eggs, separated
1 cup sugar
1 cup walnuts, chopped coarsely, untoasted
2 cups unsweetened shredded coconut
½ cup orange juice
¼ cup orange liqueur
1 cup whipping cream
1 square bittersweet chocolate for garnish

Preheat the oven to 325-degrees. In the bowl of an electric mixer, beat the egg whites with ½ cup sugar until the mixture holds stiff peaks. Without washing the beaters, beat the eggs yolk, in a small bowl with the rest of the sugar until light and fluffy. Add the yolks to the whites but do not stir. Add the walnuts and gently fold the ingredients together. Do the same with the coconut, one cup at a time. Pour the cake batter into a greased 9-inch spring form pan, and bake for 45 minutes until lightly brown on top. Remove from the oven and allow to cool. Mix together the orange juice and orange liqueur. Pour over the cake while it is still in the pan. When the cake has cooled, place it in the refrigerator until it is time to serve. Just before serving, cover the surface and garnish with bittersweet chocolate shavings. Store in the refrigerator

<JoanNathan> I have an Almond Macaroon recipe too! This recipe came from an elderly Greek woman in Boston. Almond Macaroon recipe:

3 ¼ cup blanched almonds
2 cups sugar
4 egg whites
½ teaspoon almond extract
Sifted matzoh flour for dusting
¼ cup blanched, toasted almonds

Preheat oven to 350-degrees. Grind the almonds in a food processor. Place the ground almonds in a bowl. Add the sugar and egg whites one-by-one, blending by hand or with the food processor, until a paste is formed (the paste can be manipulated by the hand). Add almond extract. Refrigerate for ten minutes. Dust a large cookie sheet with matzoh flour. Take a piece of the dough, the size of a plum, roll between the palms of your hands to make a ball. Pinch the top to shape like a pear. Place, wide side down, on the cookie sheet. Place half a blanched and toasted almond on top. Bake 20-25 minutes, until the cookies rise and are slightly browned. Cool slightly and separate with a spatula, taking care not to break the cookies

<gormay> I make the Ultimate Challah and the Chez Panisse Busgirl's Whole Wheat Challah recipe every New Year's and the Maryland Dried Fruit Strudel is the closest to my Baltimore-born mother's recipe. Thanks again!

<JoanNathan> You know many of these recipes are like old friends. They bring back memories and you want to share them. It makes it all worth while when people use these recipes and carry on traditions

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> It's so nice to hear a little of each recipe's origin or source.

<JoanNathan> That is what makes cookbook writing so interesting for me. A recipe is part of a person!

<oohlaala> I agree. It is very interesting to learn of the background of a recipe!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Joan, thank you for taking the time to chat with us today and for sharing so many of your wonderful recipes!

<sandy> My grandma would be proud! Thanks!

<JoanNathan> Thank you!

<Pastry101> Happy baking, everyone!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Thank you for the recipes and insight. I think everyone is prepared to make some great Passover desserts!

<JoanNathan> I hope I have helped!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> You are always so full of information and inspiration. Thank you.

<Kate_PastryScoop> I hope that everyone will join the next chat in our Spring Series on April 7 th , when we move to the next Spring holiday - Easter.

BACK TO CHATS