PastryScoop.com Spring Chat Series

P.J. Hamel of King Arthur Flour
April 21, 2004

<Kate_PastryScoop> Hi everyone. Welcome to PastryScoop.com’s online chat. We’re thrilled to have P.J. Hamel of King Arthur Flour joining us today.

<amc> Hi P.J. I'm making a spring dessert for a volunteer program even as we type! However, I’m having a hard time deciding what to make.

<PJ_Hamel> In my opinion, springtime desserts just cry out for berries and fresh fruit. That opens it up to a WORLD of choices. How big is the group you are baking for?

<amc> I’m baking for 35 at the psychiatric group home and for 15 at a shelter. For the group of 35, I’m thinking about strawberry custard tarts but can’t find a decent crop of strawberries! Perhaps cupcakes or cookies instead.

<PJ_Hamel> Cookies are a good idea, seeing as they're so portable. Since I was just writing about shortbread before this chat began, how about a nice lemon-scented shortbread cookie, served with some fresh fruit?! Not necessarily strawberries, if you can't find any fresh, but how about fruit salad with the best fruit you can find?!

<Ingrid> There's always mousse with fresh fruit!

<Caramello> Anyone have a killer recipe using lemon curd?

<Ingrid> I suggest lightening the lemon curd with egg whites or whipping cream and making a trifle.

<PJ_Hamel> I agree with Ingrid. We do that all the time. Mix curd with whipped cream and spread it between cake layers or in a jelly roll.

<amc> Lemon tarts with blueberries or kiwi fruit are always good. I'm making cakes with lemon curd, raspberries, and marshmallow frosting. I hadn't thought of something as healthy as fruit salad. What a wonderful idea!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> P.J., does it make a difference when you use frozen versus fresh berries in pies, cobblers, etc.? Are there any tips we should keep in mind?

<PJ_Hamel> Yes, it does make a difference in how you handle the berries. Ultimately, they all give off about the same amount of liquid. But be aware that fresh berries will seem juicer at first. If you're doing a recipe using a thickener that doesn't need cooking, you'll think the frozen berries don't need as much of the thickener, but they do. I suggest microwaving frozen berries briefly to thaw them out. This will give you a better idea of their true juiciness. Proceed as your recipe instructs.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I hear that using frozen blueberries in cakes prevents them from sinking as much as fresh blueberries. Has anyone tried this technique in a recipe?

<PJ_Hamel> I’ve had better luck using thawed blueberries, coating them with flour by tossing the two together in a bag. I suppose you could also add a thickener like Signature Secrets to the batter to help keep the blueberries in place.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> What exactly is Signature Secrets, and what other uses are there for the product?

<PJ_Hamel> Signature Secrets is a modified starch that's just coming onto the retail market. Similar to Instant ClearJel, it's a thickener that doesn't need cooking. I've made wonderful fruit fillings from fresh berries, sugar, and either thickener. Because no cooking is needed, the finished product is extremely fresh!

<tciccarini> What thickening agents do you prefer to use with fruit pies?

<PJ_Hamel> Signature Secrets is so new that I have not yet tried it in fresh fruit pie, but I love using Instant ClearJel. Mix it with some of the sliced fruit for moisture, then with the whole fruit. I'm seeing a beautiful raspberry pie here!

<tciccarini> P.J., what fruits do you use for spring baking? Can you give us some tips on choosing and storing fruits?

<PJ_Hamel> Rhubarb (of course!) is the quintessential spring fruit. Make it into sauce, and then use it to fill cake layers, make rhubarb crisp, or, of course, pair it with strawberries in a pie. I find we're getting fabulous strawberries up here in Vermont, as well as down south in Florida. Beautiful, red, juicy, and tasty. Keep in mind strawberry shortcake is a simple, no-fail, crowd pleaser!

<tciccarini> How do you choose rhubarb and strawberries? And, how do you store them?

<PJ_Hamel> When choosing strawberries try not to get the huge ones; smaller is better. They should be very red, but check the bottom of the package. They shouldn't be squashed. In selecting rhubarb, again, smaller is better. The larger stalks tend to be a bit woody. See if you can get some that have a lot of red which will make the puree pretty and pink. I've found transferring the strawberries to a bowl and covering it with plastic wrap keeps the berries fresh for a longer amount of time. Wrap the rhubarb in wet paper towels. Store both in the fridge.

<tanusz> What is your favorite torte?

<PJ_Hamel> My favorite torte is Blitz Torte, and it's great for this time of the year because you can layer it with fresh fruit. Look online for a recipe.

<shelly> I love baking, but I find my cookies get too hard and crisp. What am I doing wrong??

<PJ_Hamel> Sounds like your oven isn't calibrated. Make sure the temperature in the oven is the same as the temperature that the dial reads by using an oven thermometer. Also, if you're using a heavy Teflon mat, like a Silpat, try switching to parchment paper or a lighter mat. I find that for cookies, the heavy silicone mats are too thick and tend to insulate the cookies. I hope you're not using an "airbake" pan! Airbake pans insulate the bottom of the cookies too much. By the time the bottoms are brown, the tops are dried out. Make sure your cookies are positioned on a rack in the middle of your oven. Don’t forget to rotate your cookie sheets front to back and top to bottom midway through baking.

<Ingrid> Are you using butter, margarine, or shortening in your cookies? I love using butter, but the cookies aren't as soft.

<shelly> I use half butter and half shortening.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> For moist cookies, I like to underbake them ever so slightly by a few minutes. They seem a little underbaked right out of the oven, but when they cool they're perfectly moist and just the right consistency. Thirty to sixty seconds is such a small amount of time but can end up making a huge difference when baking cookies.

<tciccarini> Sometimes at home I have to bake my cookies on double sheet pans because they bake too much on the bottom. I also refrigerate my cookies approximately 15 minutes before baking them.

<Caramello> P.J., what is your opinion on using cake flour, all purpose flour, bread flour, etc.? What are the differences between them, and do you have a preferred flour when baking?

<PJ_Hamel> I use the flour called for in the recipe: cake flour if it calls for it in cakes, bread flour if it calls for it in breads, and all-purpose if nothing is specified. They all contain different levels of protein, and recipes are written to work with a particular protein level. I wouldn’t suggest mixing and matching. Follow the recipe!

<Ingrid> P.J., what about pastry flour? Not many recipes call for it. Is there a place you specifically use it?

<PJ_Hamel> I only use pastry flour mixed half and half with all-purpose flour, for biscuits and pie crust. It's so soft; I find it difficult to work with and not worth the extra effort.

<homebod> What is the best way to keep whole wheat flour? It can be very damp where I live, and it seems to spoil quickly.

<Laura> You can keep whole wheat flour in the fridge.

<Ingrid> I freeze my flour.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I keep mine in an airtight container in the freezer. PJ, what do you suggest?

<PJ_Hamel> Freeze away! Whole grain flours are best kept in the freezer. Keep all-purpose flour there, too, if you have trouble with bugs. Whole-grain flours will last about six months, frozen. All-purpose as well as cake and pastry flour will last indefinitely. Make sure they're tightly wrapped so they don't absorb moisture or odors.

<Becky> Is it necessary to warm the flower from the freezer before you use it?

<PJ_Hamel> Having flour at room temperature is a good idea when you're making bread, unless you want to add some time to your rising times, which is fine. Make sure to allow enough time for it.

<Ingrid> How about an interesting spring bread idea?

<PJ_Hamel> Sliced strawberries in quick breads or muffins are good. Be sure you cut them into small enough chunks. As for yeast breads, nothing sings "spring" to me, but any white bread scented with citrus and vanilla makes wonderful toast with fresh preserves!

<gggrimes> P.J., for spring, nothing beats the recipe for Tuscan Breakfast Bread that you published recently in The Baker's Catalog. You make the sponge the night before. It's outstanding!

<PJ_Hamel> I agree! There’s a bakery up here that makes a Tuscan coffeecake, and I tried to copy it. It is FANTASTIC. The coffeecake is not overly sweet but very satisfying!

<Kate_PastryScoop> P.J., any tips for making a muffin recipe more healthy or low-fat?

<Ingrid> Kate, have you tried substituting fat with applesauce or prune puree?

<Kate_PastryScoop> Should I substitute the same amount of prune puree or applesauce for the fat?

<Ingrid> Check out this link for substituting info: http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/wellnessways/commodity/ho_ApplesauceSubstitutionForFat.pdf

<homebod> Another good substitute is white bean puree for the fat. I usually replace half the fat with an equal amount of applesauce, bean, prune, or pumpkin puree.

<PJ_Hamel> Whenever you substitute fruit or something else for fat, your results will change. Generally, whatever it is, it will get tougher and more rubbery. Just keep that in mind. Also its shelf-life will be reduced. Although fat may add unwanted calories, in my opinion, it's critical if you want to bake tasty stuff!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Can you use a little of both (fat and puree)?

<PJ_Hamel> Yes, you can use both. “Inch” down from the fat a little bit at a time. When you find your product getting unpleasantly tough, go no further!

<Laura> We've talked a lot about strawberries and rhubarb, but I know blueberry season is right around the corner. What is your favorite thing to do with blueberries?

<PJ_Hamel> I find that a light cake, filled with an "instant" pastry cream filling (instant pudding mix made with whipping cream instead of milk, sorry, all you purists!) and paired with fresh berries makes a lovely spring dessert! Also great with fresh berries is a blueberry crisp or a FRESH blueberry pie, made without cooking the berries.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> When scaling recipes up by a large amount (i.e. a favorite cake recipe), do you know of any guidelines for how to adjust the quantities of baking powder and/or baking soda to achieve the same leavening? I know that in the case of these types of leaveners that when increasing the size of a recipe, you can't scale up exactly.

<PJ_Hamel> I don't know the specifics, but I know The Cake Bible by Rose Beranbaum has a beneficial discussion on scaling up and scaling down cake recipes.

<shelly> P.J., is there a section in your cookbook that gives advice for creating your own recipe?

<PJ_Hamel> There is not a specific section, but we have hints throughout about how and why recipes work and how to make substitutions. Once you get some techniques down and gain a better understanding of the chemistry of certain ingredients, you will certainly be able to figure out your own recipes!

<Becky> P.J., what is your favorite King Arthur product, and how do you like to use it?

<PJ_Hamel> Without a doubt, the giant spatula! I use it to move pie crust, biscuits, or cookies. My second favorite is the bread machine. I make ALL my dough in it and then bake the dough in a conventional oven.

<Becky> Do you feel you lose a little of the experience when the machine does the kneading, etc. for you?

<PJ_Hamel> I think the machine just takes away the drudgery. I still enjoy plunging my hands into the dough to shape it!

<tciccarini> Any ideas for a spring dessert with chocolate?

<PJ_Hamel> A chocolate dessert for spring? Well of course, chocolate is always welcome! For some reason, I'm thinking individual lava cakes served with a garnish of fresh raspberries.

<Caramello> Often when I make a tart crust of butter, flour, sugar, and eggs, it bakes up beautifully but then shrinks upon cooling. I have tried pricking the bottom of the crust with a fork and blind baking, but it still shrinks when cooling. Any suggestions?

<tciccarini> I suggest refrigerating or freezing the crust before baking it.

<PJ_Hamel> Make sure you don't stretch the crust AT ALL when you're putting it into the pan. Also, try substituting half of the butter with shortening.

<Shira> If you're making a large tart shell (with or without filling already in it), how do you insure an evenly baked product? I find that often the outside is almost burnt, and the inside still a bit raw.

<PJ_Hamel> Shira, try blind-baking (pre-baking) the crust, to make sure it's thoroughly crisped.

<Shira> After I've blind-baked, can I bake the tart shell again without it burning?

<PJ_Hamel> Yes. Put the filling in, and bake again. You'd be amazed how long tart or pie crust can bake without burning (although you'll need to cover the edges). The filling insulates the bottom and side crusts.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Any thoughts on how to make a soft and tender biscuit with a moist center? My biscuits are pretty good, but I'm always looking for the golden recipe or tip to send them over the roof!

<Ingrid> I find that using heavy cream in place of milk and butter (like in a cream scone) makes a heavenly biscuit.

<PJ_Hamel> Super-soft and tender biscuits have a lot of fat and very little handling. Also, try baking the biscuits in a 500-degree oven for five minutes, then shutting the oven off and leaving them in until they're brown (seven to ten minutes). This will keep the centers moist. As well, be sure to roll the biscuits thick. Try folding the dough over a couple of times to ensure better flakiness.

<tciccarini> I also freeze the biscuits before baking them. I think it helps.

<PJ_Hamel> I agree, freezing biscuits (or scones) is a good idea. It will make them more flaky and tender. Just add a few minutes to the baking time.

<tonifromnorwich> How long should the biscuits or scones be in the freezer?

<PJ_Hamel> Keep them in there until they're frozen through. Depending on their size, it will usually take 30-45 minutes.

<KellyJ> Can you tell us about your background? Did you go to culinary school?

<PJ_Hamel> No culinary school. I just love to bake and have been doing it for 30 years! I've learned a lot here at King Arthur, plus having attended classes at various places. There's no better teacher than just getting in there and DOING it!

<Laura> Do you ever teach classes? If so, are they just at King Arthur's headquarters or do you ever travel to other locations?

<PJ_Hamel> I teach at King Arthur’s Baking Education Center here in Norwich, VT. We have classes just about every day of the year, and there are PLENTY of good teachers here. You can also take classes as a part-time student at The FCI too!

<FCI_Jock> The FCI has a 1 week and a 6 week bread class in addition to a 100 and a 600 hour pastry program! If there are any questions about the great pastry programs at The French Culinary Institute you can contact me at jgrundy@frenchculinary.com. My name is Jock Grundy.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> The FCI has wonderful pastry and bread programs. Great for people interested in making their hobby into a career.

<NhumiSD> Are there any Pastry Arts courses held at The FCI this summer?

<FCI_Jock> Yes! The FCI has a 600 hour pastry class program that starts on June 19 as well as a pastry program starting on July 19. Visit www.frenchculinary.com for more information.

<Laura> PastryScoop just had a great conference with short workshops and is planning another for the fall which will be held at The FCI.

<KellyJ> Are there any plans to open another King Arthur retail store somewhere else?

<PJ_Hamel> We are starting to think about opening another store, but it will probably be three to four years before it becomes a reality.

<KellyJ> Which is your personal favorite of the King Arthur cookbooks?

<PJ_Hamel> I like both the 1990 and 2003 books; they follow one another very nicely, with very little recipe duplication. They have slightly different tones, but are both very good.

<Ingrid> P.J., can you tell us about your new cookbook?

<PJ_Hamel> Ingrid, the new book is titled The King Arthur Flour Cookie Companion. It is due out in August (if I ever finish writing it!). It will include recipes for many delicious cookies, ranging from the simplest shortbread to whoopie pies, sandwiches, tuiles, pizzelles, the classics-the best chewy oatmeal, the best crisp chocolate chip. Plus there are tons of techniques, tips, and information on tools and ingredients.

<KellyJ> What do you think is the most difficult part of writing a cookbook?

<PJ_Hamel> The most difficult part of writing a book is simply getting it done! There are many people working on one cookbook. Testing and re-testing the recipes makes the project very time consuming! For me, the hardest part of writing is simply meeting deadlines!

<Becky> Do you create your own recipes or do you work on refining older ones?

<PJ_Hamel> We use many old recipes for inspiration, then update them or give them a new flavor twist. We also create recipes from thin air. All you need is imagination, and a good grasp of baking chemistry.

<KellyJ> P.J., do you have any advice for aspiring cookbook writers?

<PJ_Hamel> Find a topic you love and set those fingers on the keyboard. FEEL it, and go! To get it published? That's another story!

<tciccarini>How do you get a publisher?

<PJ_Hamel> I didn’t have to get a publisher. My boss coordinated the offers and picked one, but that's because we're a business. For individuals, I think you'd do best to find an agent.

<Ingrid> How many hours a week do you work?

<PJ_Hamel> It depends on the week, but I usually work 60 hours a week. A “labor of love” I think they call it!

<Ingrid> P.J., this is the last question from me. If you could only have one thing to eat, what would it be?

<PJ_Hamel> Ohhhh, you're killing me—one thing?! Fresh raspberry pie, warm, a la mode.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Now we're talking! I'll have a slice as well. Thank you all for joining in today! Have a wonderful spring and happy baking!

<PJ_Hamel> Thanks, everyone. Now go out and bake!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Before I forget, I want to mention King Arthur's website (if you haven't already been). It's www.kingarthurflour.com. Also, this is the last chat in our spring series, but our summer series begins in June. We will be posting information shortly.

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