PastryScoop.com Baking Chat

Dorie Greenspan, author of Baking: From My Home to Yours
April 18, 2007

<Raina_PastryScoop> Welcome everyone! We're so pleased to have Dorie Greenspan join us for today's chat. Please feel free to ask away!

<Dorie> And I'll try to type as fast as I can.

<nylorij> I am more of a home cook. Layer cakes are not really my forte; however, I'm trying!! I have a problem keeping the layers even, as well as figuring out how much frosting to use in between layers (judging how much to use).

<nylorij> Any tips?

<nylorij> :)

<Dorie> This is the kind of thing that you can figure out by practice or a little advance planning.

<Dorie> Try dividing the frosting so that you have about half for the layers and half for the top and sides and see if that helps.

<nylorij> Thx!

<sugarseattle> I am a pastry chef traveling to Paris for the first time. I am very interested in the Asian influence in pastry. Any shops I must see?

<Dorie> I think you must see Sadaharu Aoki's shop. He is Japanese, but I think he is French trained and his pastries are a beautiful mix. He has shops in the Galeries Lafayette and a beautiful little shop on the rue Vaugirard.

<sugarseattle> How about places to get good deals on pastry equipment in Paris. (However I realize Paris is a very expensive city!)

<Dorie> Paris isn't the best place for deals on anything. It is, as you said an expensive city. And now it's even more expensive because of the low dollar, but it's fun to look.

<Dorie> Try going to Dehillerin near Les Halles. They have almost everything.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Dorie, congratulations on being nominated for a James Beard Award for your latest book!

<Dorie> Thanks, Raina. I'm thrilled that the book was nominated. Honored, really, because there were so many great pastry and baking books published this year.

<TeacherSu> My husband bought me your book for Christmas. I've made about 15 different recipes so far and have loved every one. I really appreciate the clarity of the directions. What made you decide to write the book?

<Dorie> Thank you. I'm really touched. This was the book I've wanted to write for so long because it is really a record, like a diary, of my baking in my home kitchen and with great chefs over 30 years.

<LisaMichelle> I fell in love with caneles in France and have experimented with different recipes over the years. Do you have a favorite?

<Dorie> I've made caneles with differing success. Of course the best are made in those perfect copper molds, but I've used silicone molds and made some pretty tasty ones.

<LisaMichelle> Yes, I broke down and spent about $150 on the molds. I consider it an investment in my mental health.

<Dorie> The recipe I have actually came from a pan manufacturer and I've been happy with it. Sadly, I don't have it committed to memory.

<chefed10> Hi Dorie. I am pastry chef Ed Bonuso recently retired from over 20 years at New York's top Mexican restaurant Zarela on 2nd Ave. I am compiling all the many recipes I have created over the years and am attempting to put a Mexican dessert book together. I am calling it Variations on the Flavors of Mexico and Beyond. I would love your input on how to go about this project. It is something I really am passionate about—a good portion of my life was spent creating this wonderful flavors.

<Dorie> Every editor I have ever worked with has said that the most important ingredient in a book is passion.

<Raina_PastryScoop> The books I enjoy most are the ones that have good descriptions, but more importantly, a clear voice. I like to be able to feel the chef's personality.

<chefed10> How does one find an editor? I just finished the course on the Craft of Food Writing at The FCI and it has afforded some clues on pitching my project, etc.

<Dorie> You've made a good move by taking a writing class. Your next step should probably be to write a good proposal and look for an agent.

<Dorie> These days most editors work thru agents.

<chefed10> Is there a listing of agents on the internet? Or can you recommend an agency?

<Dorie> I'm sorry, I don't know this. I think that Writer's Marketplace may have a listing.

<Ingrid> If you could have one last dessert, what would it be?

<Dorie> You ask such a hard question. I hope never to have to really answer this, but I'd say it would have to be chocolate. Maybe even the wonderful World Peace Cookies.

<Raina_PastryScoop> I've heard so much about the World Peace Cookies. They sound amazing!

<Ingrid> I made your Chocolate Gooey Cakes recently. They were fabulous warm, while the centers oozed out and just as fabulous the next day when the center was like a truffle. Could definitely be a candidate for the chocolate category.

<Stacy> I'm trying to make sugar rose petals. Do you know what mixture I should use to dip rose petal?

<Dorie> The easiest way to make sugar rose petals is to run the petals through lightly beaten egg white and then through sugar.

<Stacy> Thanks you so much! I'll try it today.

<Marilyn> I so loved your New York Times recipe for sable cookies that I was immediately inspired to not only buy your book Baking but also the KitchenAid you recommend. I haven't been disappointed. But for Easter, I attempted the luscious French lemon tart and could not get a useable dough from the sweet tart dough recipe on page 444. It seemed there was not a proper fat to flour or solids ratio. What might have gone wrong for me?

<Dorie> I'm stumped about why you couldn't get a good dough. Did you keep the butter cold and not over work the dough in the food processor?

<Marilyn> I tried to be careful and your directions are always good. I am mostly wanting your guarantee that the recipe is correct as written. I didn't have the opportunity to try it again before the holiday but will knowing that it should work as written.

<Dorie> The dough recipe in Baking is one I use all the time, so I think you should be fine.

<Marilyn> Thanks. I'll try again.

<TeacherSu> Having a son in college, I often make cookies and brownies to send him. Any tips on packing them so that they arrive as fresh as possible without the expense of overnighting them?

<LisaMichelle> I invested in one of those vacuum sealer things, and it's made a world of difference. Choice of cookie matters, too. Dorie's brown-sugar and pecan sables get yummier and yummier as the days go by. I thought they were better after a week than on the day they were made!

<Dorie> I've been tempted by those vacuum sealers. Good to know that they work.

<TeacherSu> Thanks, I am sure my son and his roommate will appreciate it!

<Dorie> I think your son and his roommates are very lucky!

<Dorie> I always let cookies come to room temperature before wrapping them, then I wrap them in a double thickness of plastic wrap.

<Dorie> I usually wrap two or three together. The key with sending cookies is never to put soft ones with crunchy ones or they'll all end up soft. I ship cookies in boxes with crumpled up waxed paper or those packing peanuts to fill the extra space.

<GEO> I hear there is a baking seminar in May? What day, please?

<Raina_PastryScoop> PastryScoop's Spring Conference is on May 20th. You can read more about it by visiting the site.

<kadeeja> Have you ever heard about Algerian sweets? I have a website www.sweetalmond.com and I'm thinking about writing a cookbook but don't know where to start. Any advice?

<Dorie> I'll look forward to looking at your site.

<jmp> What is the technique for creating a chocolate chip cookie that is soft, not the flat crisp version but a thicker cookie that doesn't spread when baking? Thank you.

<Ingrid> My chef in culinary school always said to use half butter, half shortening; butter for flavor and shortening for softness.

<Dorie> I usually think that cookies that have a high proportion of brown sugar end up being softer rather than crunchier.

<Dorie> If your cookies are routinely spreading, it could be that you're not cooling your baking sheet between batches. Is that possible?

<LisaMichelle> On the chocolate chip cookie question, try adding 1/3 to 1/2 cup of cashew butter to the dough. It's so neutral you don't taste it, but it does wonders for the texture—chewy on the inside and nice and crispy on the edges.

<Raina_PastryScoop> That's an interesting tip. Do you need to adjust any of the other proportions?

<LisaMichelle> I haven't changed the other proportions (I don't like my cookies overly sweet anyway). I also chill the dough thoroughly before baking. It's really amazing. No one can taste the cashews.

<jmp> Thank you. I will try your suggestion. Is there a standard European version of a "chocolate chip cookie?"

<Dorie> Interesting question about a standard European chocolate chip cookie. There are sables, shortbreads with chocolate chips, but the chocolate chip cookies we know and love here are very American.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Hi, Dorie! It's Judiaann.

<Dorie> Hi Judiaann, good to have you here.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Regarding flour spread in cookies: bleached flour tends to spread a little less than unbleached, but I prefer unbleached flour in all my baking. Adding a little extra flour is a good tip.

<sugarseattle> If your chocolate chip cookies are flattening too early, you could also SLIGHTLY increase the flour, but be careful as adding too much flour will make cookies tough. Also chill or even freeze cookies before baking for chewy centers.

<Dorie> That 's a good suggestion about adding more flour, but really, as you said, you have to go easy.

<jmp> Thank you. I have tried adding more flour but you are correct. My cookies were tough so I learned from that particular experiment.

<Ingrid> You can also try double-panning. Use two cookie sheets stacked together or an air-bake pan. The pan doesn't heat up as quickly, causing the cookies to spread too quickly or the bottoms to burn.

<GEO> I would like to use agave instead of sugar. What changes need I be concerned with in the recipe?

<Dorie> I'm sorry, but I don't know anything about agave.

<GEO> It's similar in consistency to honey but with a very low glycemic index. I'm a diabetic.

<sugarseattle> I have used agave instead of corn syrup or honey, so I assume it will have a similar hygroscopic water holding effect.

<Voila> Is there a problem in doubling the recipe for a chocolate layer cake and baking in three 9-inch pans as opposed to two 8-inch pans?

<Dorie> You should be okay with that proportion, just check the baking time. You'll probably want to check a 9-inch pan a little earlier.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Did you tell everyone about your blog? I love it!

<Dorie> OH, I forgot to mention my blog. Thanks, Judiaann.

<Dorie> It's www.doriegreenspan.com.

<TeacherSu> I recently made the Cocoa Buttermilk Birthday Cake and it turned out a little dry, although it was still quite tasty. I am not sure what I did wrong. I did not add the optional melted chocolate to the batter. Any ideas of where I might have gone wrong? All the other cake recipes I have made from your book were perfect.

<Dorie> Is it possible that the cake was a little overbaked?

<TeacherSu> Could be. Most of the things in my oven take the longer end of the time in recipes. Maybe that one was the exception.

<Voila> Can you recommend a wonderful chocolate cake for a layer cake that is incredibly intense in chocolate flavor? Even cutting out all dairy (milk, sour cream, buttermilk, etc.), I still can't get a true intense chocolate cake.

<Dorie> I think that the cake on the cover of my new book is very chocolaty. It's the Devil's Food White Out Cake.

<Dorie> But you might want to try a torte, something with just chocolate, butter, ground nuts, eggs and maybe just a little flour.

<TeacherSu> Devil's Food White Out Cake is delicious and chocolaty!

<cookie12> My question is how do you make tender roll-out cookies?

<Dorie> When you're making a dough that will be rolled out, make sure to not work it too much when you're mixing it.

<Dorie> It's often a good idea to mix the last bit of dry ingredients into the dough by hand, certainly, just to mix only until the dry ingredients are incorporated.

<Voila> What's your opinion on convection ovens for baking?

<Dorie> It's so interesting, I've been getting questions about convection baking a lot lately. I use a still oven because I develop, test, and write recipes for home bakers and I've always thought that most home bakers use still, not convection ovens, but I think that there might be a change among serious home bakers.

<Dorie> I'm sorry that I really can't answer the question, because although my oven has a convection switch, I usually only turn it on when I'm roasting a chicken.

<sugarseattle> I like to use convection for tarts, cookies, and anything I want to be "crunchewey," and I use a still oven for cakes and such and anything I want to be tender and cook evenly and softly.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> It seems that nowadays as people are upgrading their ovens they're going with the convection which is nice and works great for many things but is not always the best for some types of baking. Remember that most recipes are written for non-convection ovens so if it says 350, that's more like 325 in a convection oven. Either that or turn the fan off when baking delicate things that might be blown around by the fan.

<Ingrid> I've had convection ovens for over 20 years. I've found a difference in whether the fan blows the air from the top or from the back of the oven. My top blowing oven was wonderful for bread, terrible for pie. My new oven's fan blows from the back and allows me to bake with or without convection. I'm finding that I like baking without.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> I think you make a great point about knowing your oven. Every oven is a little different with unique personalities so it's good to know what works for your oven. I like to check the temperature of my oven with an oven thermometer and have it calibrated if it seems off.

<LisaMichelle> What's the best way to rewarm ganache after it's been frozen? It always ends up breaking, even when I use a double boiler. I have to heat up extra cream and re-emulsify the whole batch gradually. Should I let it come completely to room temp first?

<Dorie> I like to let my ganache come to room temperature and then to heat it very gently over simmering water. Another way is to take cold ganache and warm it in very short spurts—just a couple of seconds—on low power in a microwave, but that's really risky.

<cookie12> What is the key to making a moist cake from scratch?

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> The amount of fat (butter or oil) and the type and amount of sugar (white, dark, light) will affect the moistness of cakes.

<Dorie> A moist cake depends on the recipe's proportions, but for sure you should make sure that you're starting out with room temperature ingredients, so that you can get the most from the butter and eggs and so that the sugar will be absorbed properly.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> A quick way to get your eggs at room temperature is to put them in a bowl of warm water. I do this while I'm pulling my other ingredients together.

<Dorie> That egg trick is a good one and it's just what I do.

<cookie12> I made the coconut cake recipe from a bakery in New York and it turned out horrible. All my ingredients were the same temperature, but the cake was very dense and flavorless.

<Dorie> If the cake was flavorless, that's a problem with the recipe.

<D1946> All of the peanut butter cookie recipes that I have tried are too bland and crunchy. I would like to know how to get more peanutty taste and a softer cookie. Can you help?

<Dorie> Are you using enough peanut butter in your cookies? When I see the word bland, I often think the recipe needs salt.

<jmp> Which baking books are essential to building a library for professional bakers?

<Dorie> I think that someone at The FCI might be able to help on the question of professional baking books, but I do have some favorites.

<LisaMichelle> I have to commend you on the Pierre Herme lemon tart in your book. It was every bit as revelatory as you promised. I've used it to fill cakes, folded it with whipped cream, and served it as mousse. Everyone who tastes it is bowled over. It must be so exciting to have great chefs share such unique recipes and techniques with you. We are all grateful.

<Dorie> Thank you! That lemon cream is extraordinary. When I was writing the headnote to the recipe, I was afraid I was going overboard praising it, but, in the end, I decided I was just telling the truth. I'm so glad you agree.

<Dorie> Of course I'm partial to Pierre Hermé, having worked with him, so I like his two Larousse books (in French only for now).

<Dorie> I also like the books by Lenôtre and by Frederic Bao.

<D1946> I have about 80 baking cookbooks, but I still have yet to find one that is very descriptive and informative.

<TeacherSu> I recently made your Tall and Creamy Cheesecake. I have to thank you for making me the talk of the neighborhood! It was delicious.

<Dorie> Thanks. I try not to make that cake too often, because it's one of the few things my husband is helpless in front of and then he blames me for eating too much! Aarrgh, it's one of those no-good-deed-goes-unpunished things.

<Voila> What would you do if you needed to bake about 6 to 9 cakes at a time? Could you just load up on all of the shelves in your oven and just keep them circulating around during baking?

<Dorie> I would bake in smaller batches because opening and closing the oven so often is not good for even baking.

<cakelady> Why does a cake slope down in the center? Does the cake need more flour?

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> A good cake recipe made the proper way should not slope in the center.

<cakelady> The recipe is a Martha Stewart whipped cream cake recipe. Every time I make it that happens. I'm stumped.

<Dorie> If a cake slopes in the center, it's often a problem with the recipe, sometimes it has to do with the proportion of flour and sometimes it might have to do with how the ingredients are beaten together.

<sugarseattle> Now you've got me interested, Cakelady. Is it a sponge cake or butter cake?

<cakelady> Butter cake.

<sugarseattle> Is the method to cream butter and sugar together or mix butter with flour and sugar (aka high-ratio method)?

<cakelady> Cream butter and sugar together.

<Ingrid> Thank you so much, Ms. Greenspan. I need to sign off. I look forward to reading the transcript for the remainder of the chat.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Yes, for everyone who logged in late or missed out, we will be posting a transcript of this chat along with the others on our site soon.

<cakelady> I have a recipe for a 9-inch cake. What changes should I make for a 6-inch cake?

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Mixing procedure and baking temp will be the same for a 6-inch cake as a 9-inch cake but the bake time will be reduced. I suggest making a tray of cupcakes with the extra batter. Those will bake quicker so of course you'll need to take them out sooner. This way you can have a little treat while you wait for the bigger cake to bake and cool.

<Dorie> I'm so helpless in math I had to take math-for-poets in college, but my guess is that half the recipe should be right for that pan.

<Dorie> If I were doing this at home, I'd probably do 2/3 of the recipe the first time, just to be on the safe side.

<D1946> Can you give me an exceptionally good book title to purchase for the novice baker?

<Dorie> Every cookbook author has a different style and many books are written for different purposes.

<Dorie> I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you are home baker, perhaps you'd like the wonderful books by Maida Heatter.I find her extremely detailed and descriptive.

<TeacherSu> I really love the "playing around" section of each of the recipes. The variations there allow for so many options for us home bakers. I also appreciate that your recipes include such easily available ingredients.

<Dorie> Thank you! I like to "play around" with a recipe and I like to encourage other bakers to do the same.

<Dorie> Sometimes I think that baking gets a bad rap, that people think it's too precise and doesn't leave room for creativityand I think that's wrong. Sure you shouldn't change the proportions of a recipe's ingredients, but it's fun to play around with flavors, and add-ins, and shape and size.

<TeacherSu> When you bake cookies, do you usually put them straight on the cookie sheet or do you use parchment paper or Silpats?

<Dorie> No, I never put my cookies directly on a baking sheet. I always use parchment or Silpat and, these days, I'm usingnon-stick aluminum foil too.

<TeacherSu> What is your opinion on nonstick baking pans? I currently have some nonstick baking sheets from Williams Sonoma that were made by Chicago Metallic. I was considering getting some cake pans too. What types of baking are nonstick pans well suited for?

<Dorie> I like nonstick pans for breads and for Bundts and loaf cakes, but even when I'm using nonstick cake pans, I useparchment liners or, if I'm making brownies, I still line the pan with foil and leave extra on the edges for handles.Probably unnecessary, but it makes it easier.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> If you butter and flour properly, any cake pan can be nonstick. I love parchment paper. I line all my cake bottoms and sheet pans with it. For loaf pans, I trim the paper to extend up the sides a bit. This way you can use the end pieces to pull the cake out.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Nonstick Bundt pan is the way to go. I agree.

<Rona> Any tips for pie crusts? Mine seem to be heavy, not light and flaky.

<Dorie> Heaviness often comes from too much fat or, more usually, overworking the dough when you're mixing it.

<Dorie> I like to mix my pie dough in the food processor and to leave biggish size pieces of butter and shortening in the dough.Also, make sure your ingredients are cold when you start. Sometimes I start with frozen butter and shortening.

<Rona> Thank you. I'll try the food processor and freezing the butter.

<LisaMichelle> On the pie/tart crust issue, I also like to sub out a little of the flour for rice flour, usually about 3 tablespoons. It makes for a nice sandy, crumbly texture.

<BM> Can these recipes be veganized?

<Dorie> I'm sorry, but I've never tried to veganize my recipes, although I've seen several of my recipes veganized in blogs.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> I love your Paris Sweets cookbook. Such delicious recipes! I have a soft spot for traditional French desserts, as well as traditional all-American desserts.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> You seem to have a gift for including recipes that people actually want to make and EAT. :)

<Dorie> Thank you for the kind words about Paris Sweets. I LOVED doing that book and meeting so many of the Paris pastry chefs whose work I love.

<sugarseattle> I am going to use Paris Sweets as my guide to Parisan bakeries. I keep checking it out from the library, but have had to pay so many fines I should probably just buy it ;)

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Trust me. It's worth buying. You'll get plenty of use from it.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> My pages are all a bit sticky from use. Ha ha.

<Dorie> Here are two places that are not in the book. They're too new, but you might want to visit them in Paris:

Claire Damon, the only woman to have her own shop in Paris (I wrote about her on my blog: www.doriegreenspan.com) and Pain du Sucre, opened in the Marais by two chefs from Pierre Gagnaire.

<Voila> If you had to choose one recipe from your new book, which would be your favorite?

<Dorie> It's like asking me which is my favorite child. I avoided that problem in real life by only having one child!

<Dorie> I don't really have a favorite-favorite, but I adore those World Peace Cookies.

<Rona> They are the bomb.

<Rona> Favorites are difficult to choose. There's so many wonderful, sweet choices.

<Rona> Do you have a favorite dessert that you've not attempted at home?

<Dorie> That's a great question, but I can't think of dessert I haven't tried but wanted to. I'm sure one will come to me as soon as we sign off.

<BM> How long did it take you to write this cookbook?

<Dorie> I sometimes say that this last book took me 30 years to write because it is a record of all that time in the kitchen, but the actual working time was about 4 years.

<BM> Did you use a cookbook software to write your book?

<Dorie> I didn't use cookbook software. I just format the recipes in a straightforward way using Word and then pull my hair out trying to figure out how best to file them.

<sugarseattle> Here's a random question... I've been pulling my hair out trying to make croissants. I was hoping for a class in Paris, but none are available when I'll be there. Any suggestions?

<Dorie> Have you looked at Esther McManus's recipe for croissants and the step-by-step photos in Baking with Julia? I think the recipe is a gem. And the finished croissants were good enough to bring Julia to tears.

<sugarseattle> I will try that croissant recipe. I'll try anything that brought Julia to tears. I have tried the brioche filled with pastry cream and it brought me to tears.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop>Baking from Julia... that's another fantastic book! I highly recommend that one to all of you as well. I've made so many recipes from that book.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Falai here in the NYC makes a chocolate croissant filled with chocolate pastry cream. It makes me weak in the knees. Ha ha.

<kadeeja> For croissants I think the best recipe is the one from Jacques Torres Dessert Circus cookbook.

<kadeeja> Easy and soooooooo good.

<Dorie> I'll have to try Jacques' croissant recipe.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Do you have any upcoming news, events, or appearances that you'd like to share?

<Dorie> I'll be in Toronto for the Santé festival on Saturday, May 12.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Those Canadians are in for a treat!

<Dorie> And I'll be in Las Vegas for the Bon Appétit Focus on Food and Wine the weekend of May 17.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Another fun food event. And in Las Vegas too!

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Well, sadly our time is coming to a close...

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> I'd like to thank all of you for joining us today and most of all to the lovely and talented DORIE GREENSPAN for sharing her know-how with us today!

<TeacherSu> Thank you so much for doing this today! I have enjoyed your book and learning from you today. I can't wait to try out some more recipes.

<jmp> Thank you for answering my questions. It was so informative. I wish you great success.

<Rona> Yes, thank you. I've learned a lot. Great suggestions.

<sugarseattle> Thanks for the tips. you rock!

<BM> Thank you so much for all the info.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Thank you so much for all of the great information! I feel like eating cookies for lunch now ;)

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Be sure to check out Dorie's website. It's a wonderful read.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Also, I wanted to remind you all that PastryScoop.com's Spring 2007 Conference will take place on Sunday, May 20th here at The French Culinary Institute in NYC. Tons of great workshops with talented pastry chefs. You can register online from our homepage.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Thank you all. Keep on baking and keep on learning because, as with all good things, practice makes perfect.

<Judiaann_Woo_PastryScoop> Bye, Dorie. Have a great day and thank you again!!!

<Dorie> Thank you everyone for coming today. It was great to talk to you!