The Baking Team from Whole Foods Market
March 12, 2008

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Welcome to our first chat of 2008! Today's topic is SPRING BAKING and we've got some expert bakers from Whole Foods Market joining us today. Feel free to ask SHIMME and BETH your questions.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I have a question or perhaps more of a comment. How often do you bake your cookies and scones for the stores? They're always so fresh! I always seem to get lucky and get a warm cookie.

<shimme_wfm> We bake them throughout the day.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I thought so. Good for you.

<shimme_wfm> Especially in our New York City Whole Foods Markets, we

need to in order to keep up with the volume.

<Nicole> Are baked goods made from scratch in-store?

<shimme_wfm> It depends. We do a fair amount in-store from scratch. Maybe about 40% in the city and a bit more in the suburbs.

<TanyaD> I use all natural ingredients in my baking and sometimes I find it challenging to bake things that taste fresh the next day. I know stores use mixes and other additives to prevent staling. How does Whole Foods tackle this problem?

<shimme_wfm> We have this problem too, which is why we bake everything fresh and as often as possible. The best thing is to keep it airtight. Also, the higher the fat and sugar, the longer it will last.

<TanyaD> Ah, sounds like I need to invest in a bunch of Tupperware!

<Sampurna_PastryScoop> Happy to hear there are positive points to high fat and sugar!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Fat and sugar make the world go around!

<shimme_wfm> It's a bakery! It should have fat and sugar!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Do you find any difference when baking with organic or natural sugars versus refined white sugar? I want to use more natural sugar in my baking, but I don't want to screw up my recipes. Any tips?

<shimme_wfm> We actually don't see a huge difference between organic and conventional sugar. The biggest difference is in the crystal size.

<TanyaD> Speaking of sugar, a vegan friend of mine told me the other day that conventional sugar wasn't vegan since it's processed through bone meal. Is this true?

<shimme_wfm> A good debate is raging about that one. Some sugar is bone char filtered, but more and more are not. At Whole Foods Market we offer sugars that are not bone char filtered.

<TanyaD> Is that labeled on the sugar bag in some way? Any brands you can recommend?

<shimme_wfm> We actually do have a labeled 365 vegan sugar.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I like your 365 brand. Excellent prices.

<Nicole> I am addicted to Whole Foods Market's croissants. How long does it take to make them?

<beth_wfm> In the city, we sell the Balthazar croissants because they are very time consuming to make and the volume of sales is high.

<Hilary> Does Whole Foods ever bake anything made with agave syrup?

<shimme_wfm> We do a little bit. Agave syrup is a bit expensive, but we are working at getting the costs down so we can use it more. It's a great sugar alternative.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I love agave syrup! I've never baked with it, but I drizzle it over everything. It's great. I like the Wholesome Sweeteners brand.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Any general tips on how to use agave syrup in baking?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Can you replace it any time a recipe calls for honey? What about with corn syrup?

<shimme_wfm> You can use it as almost a one to one replacement for honey. If you are replacing cane sugar, you might have to make up for the added moisture.

<shimme_wfm> By the way, agave is a good replacement for corn syrup in many things.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I'm going to try agave syrup in my chocolate glaze recipe. I think it should work just fine.

<Avishay> I have a question regarding whole grain flour. I am trying to make cookies with whole grain flour. It is a sprouted spelt flour.

<shimme_wfm> Are the cookies coming out heavy?

<Avishay> No. They are breaking easily.

<Avishay> My basic ingredients are white chocolate chunks and macadamia nuts.

<beth_wfm> Have you tried adjusting the liquid in your cookie recipes that you are using whole grains in?

<Avishay> I use cream cheese and sour cream and I also use palm fruit shortening and sucanat as my sweetener. Any ideas on how to solve this problem?

<beth_wfm> You may just have to keep adjusting for the flour and liquid until you get it right or try a whole grain flour that is not sprouted.

<Avishay> I like the idea of using sprouted spelt flour for health reasons, as sprouting also helps to unlock the enzymes and all the magic that happens which makes this stuff easy to digest.

<Avishay> Do you guys have any experience using sprouted spelt flour for cakes or pastries?

<beth_wfm> No, but as it becomes more popular it is something we are looking to do in the future.

<TanyaD> I'm in California, and while it's definitely spring here, we haven't seen much change from the winter fruits. Any suggestions for what to bake that is "spring" like even though the variety of fresh fruit isn't available yet?

<shimme_wfm> Spring fruits are tough right now. We are definitely in between seasons.

<TanyaD> Not really much appeal for green garlic cookies!

<shimme_wfm> I think that angel food cake is the best springtime dessert. It is light and airy and goes with everything.

<beth_wfm> Lemon is a great flavor for springtime.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Does Whole Foods Market sell an alternative to Crisco?

<shimme_wfm> We do. Its palm shortening, a naturally occurring solid fat.

<TanyaD> Isn't palm shortening really expensive?

<shimme_wfm> The cost has come down a lot actually on palm shortening. Everyone is starting to use it.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Is palm shortening trans fat free?

<shimme_wfm> It is!

<Hilary> What are some good whole grain flours that you recommend baking with?

<shimme_wfm> Spelt flour and whole wheat flour are my favorites.

<Hilary> What about quinoa flour? Have you ever baked with that and does it affect the flavor?

<shimme_wfm> I have not used quinoa flour. Have you seen many items with it?

<Hilary> I was in the store the other day and saw a new cookie in your grocery department called Andean Dream made with quinoa flour. It intrigued me.

<shimme_wfm> That cookie sounds cool. I will check it out.

<Sampurna_PastryScoop> What are some classic baked goods and desserts you all offer in the spring?

<shimme_wfm> We sell tons of chocolate right now, but the lighter desserts and cookies are the big hits. We also have our in-house made angel food cakes and butter cookies.

<Sampurna_PastryScoop> Butter cookies sound delightful!

<FCI_Katie> Hi Everyone!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> We also have Katie from The FCI online if anyone has any questions about classes.

<Nicole> Does Whole Foods Market sell palm shortening?

<shimme_wfm> We sell a few varieties and sizes.

<Nicole> Great, thanks.

<Hilary> What desserts will you have available for Passover?

<shimme_wfm> We'll actually have a full line of kosher goods including teacakes and cookies from a bakery out of Philly for Passover. We make a lot in-house, but since we are not certified kosher, we need to bring in many things from other great bakeries.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I saw that you have a fun assortment of goodies for St. Patrick's Day such as Irish soda bread and shamrock cupcakes too!

<shimme_wfm> Yes! You might have seen them next to the Guinness!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes, I saw a stack of Guinness next to the cakes! Not something you see every day.

<shimme_wfm> Our Irish soda bread is flying. This is the only time of year we carry it.

<shimme_wfm> We also have all of our Easter goodies out right now.

<Jenny> Does the Whole Foods Bakery do any nut allergy safe baked goods?

<shimme_wfm> We try, but not a lot of bakeries are allergen-free yet.

<Avishay> Is there any scientific explanation on the nature of sprouted grain flour in cookie-like products?

<shimme_wfm> Wow, Avishay. There probably is one, but I have to say I need to do some homework before I can answer.

<Vidya> I love your vegan chocolate chip scones. What's the secret?

<beth_wfm> The walnut date vegan scones are even better!

<shimme_wfm> The secret… is...

<shimme_wfm> A secret. Just kidding. I'm not quite sure. We do use palm shortening and that gives them a buttery feel.

<Vidya> I'm concerned about the saturated fat in palm shortening. What are you thoughts on that?

<shimme_wfm> The saturated fat is not that bad, compared to other items. I think it's a good alternative and like everything, moderation is key.

<Jenny> How do you suggest one prepares nut-safe items? Do you know any manufacturers that produce allergen-free items like flour and bread?

<beth_wfm> Cherrybrook is a brand that is in our stores that sells a variety of nut-safe mixes.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I've tried the Cherrybrook chocolate cake mix and it's fantastic! It tastes like homemade cake.

<Raina_PastryScoop> I was about to say the same about the Cherrybrook chocolate. Really good for a mix.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Even if you're not concerned with allergies, that chocolate cake mix rocks.

<kellym> What brand of natural food coloring does Whole Foods use? I have tried the brand India Tree but it gave my frosting an off-taste.

<beth_wfm> We also use India Tree and Plant Colors in our stores. I do not think Plant Colors has a retail item. Other brands are Color Maker and Chef Rubber.

<Vidya> I'm also curious why your vegan baked goods vary from store to store. I live in NYC and I've found that not all the stores carry the same items.

<shimme_wfm> Most of our vegan items are made from scratch and that is why you see different things in different stores.

<shimme_wfm> Are you vegan?

<Vidya> Well, I wouldn't say 100% as baked goods are my weakness. I'm almost there though. I even got the 365 vegan sugar recently.

<shimme_wfm> Ha! Well, that was my weakness too. I became a baker so I could create my own vegan items.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Safe to say that no one in this chat room can resist sweets, vegan or not!

<Vidya> That's pretty cool. I've always baked a lot, so now I'm learning to bake vegan. With Earth Balance it's not too hard. And, I just got Ener-G Egg Replacer. I like Whole Foods Market because they have some things I really like that are freshly baked, so your efforts are worthwhile!

<Raina_PastryScoop> What is Earth Balance made from?

<shimme_wfm> Earth Balance is a soy/palm mix.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Good to know. I'm allergic to soy.

<Vidya> Earth Balance in non-hydrogenated margarine. I believe it's made from a combination of oils and is trans fat free.

<shimme_wfm> It is indeed trans fat free.

<artisanbaker> What is a good organic bread flour to use? I love bread baking.

<beth_wfm> I really love our 365 organic flour.

<artisanbaker> Do you find that organic sugars crystallize when making boiled syrups? How does one prevent this?

<beth_wfm> If you add a small amount of lemon juice to what you are boiling that might help. If you do not want to add that then you should make sure to wash the sides of the pan down with water with a pastry brush as the sugar cooks down. That should help.

<Avishay> What are the various things to be kept in mind while making cookies with whole grain flour compared to regular white refined flour that the whole world is used to?

<shimme_wfm> I think it is all about the moisture content.

<Avishay> I agree with you, Shimme. Moisture is once again an issue here.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Does Whole Foods Market have a cookbook?

<shimme_wfm> Yes we do! It's great.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Does it include baking recipes?

<shimme_wfm> It does, but not as many as all of us would probably like! We need an all dessert book don't we?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes! A dessert book would be great. Be sure to add the recipe for the peanut butter cookies and your Two-Bite brownies!

<Raina_PastryScoop> Those peanut butter cookies are killer!

<Vidya> I am a sucker for those Two-Bite brownies!

<Avishay> I read in a Pillsbury newsletter that when making cookies, granulated sugar makes cookies spread more while powdered sugar spreads less.

<shimme_wfm> In some recipes that is true, but it does depend.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Powdered and granulated sugar do not work interchangeably in many recipes. I recommend using what the recipe calls for. The exception being whipped cream. You can use either and get fine results so long as you make sure your sugar dissolves.

<artisanbaker> What's some good uses for leftover bread? You guys surely have some leftover bread around.

<beth_wfm> Bread pudding is great for leftover breads. Or you can make croutons or bread crumbs.

<artisanbaker> Any good recipes for Irish soda bread?

<beth_wfm> I do not have one off the top of my head, but most are made of flour, butter, buttermilk, raisins, caraway seeds, and maybe a little sugar.

<Vidya> Shimme, I'm excited that you're vegan. Speaking of whipped cream, any ideas on vegan whipped cream?

<shimme_wfm> Ha, vegan whipped cream. We do have the kind in a can called Soyatoo Soy Whip. It's ok, other than that it's tough.

<Raina_PastryScoop> Vegan whipped cream is tough? Like you have to chew it?

<Vidya> I think he meant tough to find an option for! I was actually wondering if I could make it.

<shimme_wfm> Raina, you crack me up. Tough to make indeed, and yes, I have had some that have turned out chewy (unfortunately).

<Hilary> What can you use as a vegan alternative for buttermilk?

<shimme_wfm> Buttermilk is tough. You can try to curdle it with a bit of lemon juice, but I have not found a good alternative yet.

<Vidya> For vegan buttermilk, can you use apple cider vinegar in soy milk? I bake cakes with that combo, and it works very well.

<shimme_wfm> Vidya, that's a great idea!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> What kind of cheese is in your savory scone (the one with all the vegetable bits)?

<beth_wfm> Cheddar is in the savory scone but there are other savory biscuit that we sell with vegetables and different cheeses.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I like your savory scone. It's like a meal to go! Tastier than a Hot Pocket.

<shimme_wfm> And Hot Pockets can be pretty darn tasty!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Does the 364 brand make a hot pocket?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> 365!

<shimme_wfm> The 365 brand does not… yet.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Sorry, I skipped a day.

<shimme_wfm> It's leap year… 366!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I could use an extra day a year.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Do any of your stores sell wine?

<shimme_wfm> We have a few, but wine laws are tough, so there are none in the city right now.

<artisanbaker> Can you use instant yeast in bread baking at Whole Foods Market?

<beth_wfm> We use compressed yeast or natural starters. We do not use the instant yeast.

<Sally> Does anyone know if traditional ciabatta bread has milk in it or not. I have several recipes. Some call for dried milk and some don't.

<shimme_wfm> Ours does not, but I have seen some that do as well.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> FYI: My dog eats your 365 Lamb and Rice and it's the best thing that every happened to her. She loves it! Yum yum. She wanted me to tell you that.

<artisanbaker> Do you have a recipe for that dog food?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> That should go in your cookbook!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> People would love that. And a good recipe for a wholesome dog biscuit.

<shimme_wfm> I don't have the dog food recipe, sorry.

<shimme_wfm> Great ideas! Dogs love bakeries, too!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> According to the can, it's just ground lamb, brown rice, some vitamins and minerals and that's pretty much it. No fillers and none of the bad stuff.

<Raina_PastryScoop> You do have to be careful about making your own pet food at home. You need it to be nutritionally complete.

<kellym> Is there such a thing as unbleached cake flour?

<shimme_wfm> There is, but it is hard to find right now. What I do is triple sift and add an extra pinch of baking powder.

<artisanbaker> What avenues are most commonly used for recruitment of bakers?

<shimme_wfm> We use a lot of schools and websites.

<shimme_wfm> If you need a job let me know! We are always looking!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Whole Foods Market often posts position openings at The French Culinary Institute.

<shimme_wfm> We love The FCI!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Awww shucks. Thanks.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> We love Whole Foods Market!

<Vidya> Shimme, where do you bake?

<shimme_wfm> I'm actually the regional coordinator so I oversee all of the bakeries in NY, CT, and NJ.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> He's a big wig but he still bakes so he knows what he's talking about!

<MichelleB> Who costs products for sale? Is it an operational position at Whole Foods, or do the bakers run the operations themselves?

<shimme_wfm> We do some costing in-house and then some at the regional level. All of our bakeries are run like their own little store though.

<WilcoBakes> Does anyone have a suggestion for a beginner interested in baking, i.e. books or resources?

<FCI_Katie> At The French Culinary Institute, we have some great amateur classes in bread and pastry if you're interested in learning hands-on.

<Hilary> I like Maeda Haetter baking books.

<Raina_PastryScoop> King Arthur books are great, too.

<Hilary> I also always find the Joy of Cooking explanations for techniques and tips helpful.

<Vidya> I agree, Joy of Cooking is a great resource.

<WilcoBakes> Thank you! Yes, I would love a hands-on class. I am new to this "world" and not sure where to begin.

<Vidya> For basic baked goods, the Williams-Sonoma recipes are also very good.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop>Joy of Cooking is great—a real classic and great reference.

<WilcoBakes> This is excellent. I'm jotting your suggestions down. Truly helpful!

<shimme_wfm> Wow, you folks have asked some great questions.

<Hilary> Thanks everyone! This was really informative.

<FCI_Katie> You can check out our website, www.frenchculinary.com or call me directly at (646) 254-7534 for more information on our classes.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> For the locals, be sure to check out the Whole Foods Market Bowery location. They have a great Culinary Center and a very special pie section!

<Sampurna_PastryScoop> Yes, the pies are delicious!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Okay, we're just about out of time. Any final questions?

<shimme_wfm> Thanks everyone. This was great!

<artisanbaker> Thank you!

<Raina_PastryScoop> See you soon!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Thank you to Shimme and Beth for all their great advice and suggestions! And thank you all for joining us today. Happy Baking!