Pichet Ong formerly of P*ong and Batch
 March 18, 2009

mcworks2: Good morning. Being a first timer, how does the interacting go?

liesel pastryscoop: Welcome mcworks! Basically you can start asking your questions to Pichet and he will answer them back. The different questions and answers will appear on the screen as we go.

YvanLemoine: Yo, Pichet! You there?!

pichet ong: I am here.

YvanLemoine: Whuzup kid! Long time no speak.

YvanLemoine: : )

liesel pastryscoop: Hi, Everyone! Welcome to our chat with Pichet. Does anyone want to kick us off with a question?

pichet ong: Hi, Yvan. Yes, long time no chat.

pichet ong: Hi, Liesel.

caitlingh18: Pichet, did you go to culinary school?

pichet ong: No I didn't go to culinary school, but I did take some bread making classes early in my career.

beano: hello

liesel pastryscoop: Welcome, beano!

pichet ong: Hi, beano.

caitlingh18: How did you end up as a professional pastry chef?

pichet ong: I went to architecture school, which at that time, involved making a lot of models and freehand drawings. I love working with my hands. Hence, bread making was a great approach to my culinary career.

mcworks2: What elements do you think are important in a dessert?

pichet ong: I think it depends on the type of dessert you are making. What I do mostly are restaurant desserts, which I believe should be within context with the restaurant and the rest of the meal.

pichet ong: It should be refreshing and delicious. It is the last course, and last impressions should go a long way post dinner experience.

mcworks2: Do you incorporate a crispy to soft, tart to sweet, etc. play-off in every dessert?

pichet ong: Yes, I love textures and contrasts in flavor, temperature, and colors: soft/crunchy, sweet/salty, sour/bitter, hot/cold, and primary color contrasts.

YvanLemoine: I gotta run, but I just wanted to say hi and see what this cybertechnic chat thing was all about. Cool beans! Be good brother; I'll see you soon. Have fun everyone! Pichet is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

pichet ong: Yvan is awesome too! See you soon!

YvanLemoine: : )

Rebekah: How do you come up with new inspiration for dessert ingredients?

pichet ong: For inspiration, I usually start off with what's available and at its best seasonally, such as fruits, and then build a dessert around that by flavor building. Vanilla is always a great start—or lemon, or spices, or chocolate.

modctbsis: You use a lot of flavor reductions instead of sugar in your baked goods. What do you use to make them? Why do you use them over sugar?

pichet ong: There is just more flavor in reductions. It's like jams and marmalades or dehydrated fruits. I love the concept of removing water out of fruits to concentrate their flavor.

pichet ong: Or doing milk reductions.

mcworks2: What's the easiest way to remove water from fruits?

pichet ong: I toss fruit with a bit of sugar, lemon, and salt, all of which helps draw water out of the fruit (a technique often used with curing meats and fish), and then cook it down, like you would with a marmalade. And I dehydrate grapes to make house-made raisins for cookies. cranberries, etc., which concentrates their sweetness.

gtucker@mshanken.com: Have you created any desserts using the ingredients in Vietnamese-style coffee, that is, with sweetened condensed milk and coffee?

pichet ong: Yes. I have a few in my recent book The Sweet Spot. A coffee/chocolate tart and another inspired by the Italian affogato. Right now at Batch bakery, I have a Vietnamese coffee breakfast cake with Saigon cinnamon, Vietnamese coffee, and condensed milk glaze.

gtucker@mshanken.com: Speaking of Saigon cinnamon, what exactly makes it different from regular cinnamon from, say, Indonesia? Is it sweeter? Stronger?

pichet ong: Every type of cinnamon has a different flavor profile. But I have to say with spices, it's all about the aromatics. Saigon cinnamon has a beautiful aroma.

Rebekah: Where in the world do you most draw your inspiration from?

pichet ong: I'd say Europe and Asia. I love the strong flavors found in many Asian cuisines.

Rebekah: Any particular ingredients stand out in your mind as go-tos?

pichet ong: What do you mean Rebekah?

mrrecipe: Is vanilla your favorite flavor??

pichet ong: Vanilla is definitely up there as one of my favorite flavors. I think at least 75 percent of my recipes include vanilla.

mrrecipe: Only 75 percent?

caitlingh18: When making vanilla extract what kind of liquor is best?

liesel pastryscoop: You don't want to add flavor with your liquor. Vodka is a good option.

pichet ong: I'd choose a more neutral flavor alcohol when making vanilla extract, such as vodka.

mrrecipe: How do you get your chocolate chip cookies so light and delicious?

pichet ong: I like aerating anything. I start off with room temperature butter and cream it a lot when making cookie dough. I cook the leaveners with warm water to activate them and fold into the batter.

gtucker@mshanken.com: What's up with the kids sharing your kitchen space to learn how to make cupcakes? Is that on weekends only?

pichet ong: The cooking classes take place all week. We have a big on this coming Saturday.

ihgwiese: Are you familiar with the fruit "caimito" or star apple. I think its flavor will go well with desserts and confections, but I can't find it anywhere.

pichet ong: I have to say that I'm not familiar with caimito unless there is another name for it. Is it like custard apple?

ihgwiese: I'm not familiar with custard apple-- but caimito does have a white or purple flesh with custard-like consistency. It might very well be one and the same as custard apple. Have you worked with custard apple?

pichet ong: Sounds like caimito could be like custard apple which i grew up eating.

caitlingh18: Caimito is a fruit from Central America..Dunno where you could find it.

pichet ong: Yes, they make great sorbet. Its flavor is very delicate, like dairy-free apple custard.

liesel pastryscoop: caitlingh, I don't know if they have it, but you should try: http://www.1-800-organicfruitofthemonthclub.com/exoticfruits.html .

ihgwiese: I bet we're talking about the same thing—caimito/custard apple. I grew up eating it in the Philippines. Last time I had it was five years ago in Hawaii. I have been looking for it ever since. I think it would add an interesting flavor to some sort of custardy dessert.

pichet ong: Ok. You can find the fruit sometimes in Chinatown in New York, but I find that it is not custard like the way I had it growing up. You can also find them canned, which is not great for eating, but okay for cooking into sorbet or perhaps a compote.

gtucker@mshanken.com: Do you use durian in any of your dishes? Is it "user-friendly?" or best not to go near?

pichet ong: I love durian. To many people who grew up (or travel often to) Southeast Asia, it borderlines on being a delicacy. My favorite way to eat it, besides by itself, is over a bowl of sweet sticky rice and some coconut cream, which tempers the pungency of the fruit greatly.

ihgwiese: Just checked organic fruit of the month club. Custard apple is different from caimito, but I did grow up eating custard apple, too. Organic Fruit of the month does not have caimito.

awildagarcia1978@gmail.com: What is the best chocolate for ganaches?

pichet ong: I don't know if I can choose a best chocolate for ganache. I use a lot of Valrhona, Guittard, Cluizel, Amedei, and recently Cocoa Noel. Although, I have to be honest, with this new economy, price points is a big factor to take into consideration. My chocolate layer cake at Batch and the chocolate mousse at P*ONG are made with Valrhona's Pur Caribe.

caitlingh18: do you make your own granola? If so what do you put in it?

pichet ong: Granola: house-dried fruits and usually some kind of nuts. I love pecans.

liesel pastryscoop : Pecans are great. I am also a huge fan of almonds in granola. I am liking agave a lot, too, these days. I have been trying it in all sorts of things. Although for granola, I am maple syrup all the way.

caitlingh18: Do you use maple syrup, honey, oil, or something else?

pichet ong: Yes. A lot of honey. These days I'm digging agave also.

pichet ong: I have a maple/brown butter buttercream that I use for a pumpkin cupcake at Batch. So, yes lots of maple, too.

chef ellinger: I saw you make caramel popcorn on Iron Chef on the Food Network Did you add the raw popcorn to the sugar?

pichet ong: Well, I was working with time constraints, and, yes, I cooked raw popcorn in sugar while waiting for the caramel to happen…while waiting for many other things to happen!

Julia: In making cakes, what are some of the key factors in making them moist?

pichet ong: I like to add as much fat as I can to cake batters. The problem is in the emulsification of the protein/water/fat ratio. So I usually include the technique of making an emulsion of the oil or butter with the egg to make a mayonnaise-like product and fold it into the batter.

Julia: Ah, I was going to ask the oil or butter question next! What are the differences?

liesel pastryscoop: I think oil over butter depends a lot on what you are making. Are you referring to cakes specifically?

Julia: I like to make cupcakes, so yes cakes.

pichet ong: Well my general rule is butter is better. It smells great, tastes great. But oil does make a lighter cake. But it really depends on the cake. Dry vegetable cakes such as carrot or parsnip really benefit from addition of oil. A lot of my recipes have a combination of both.

pichet ong: When making layer cakes, I love to soak with lightly sweetened syrups—often with lemon, coffee, or another flavor.

Julia: Yeah, some people say oil makes cake crumb moister than butter.

awildagarcia1978@gmail.com: I thought butter would make the cake lighter?

awildagarcia1978@gmail.com: Why does oil work better?

pichet ong: There is no protein in oil. Protein keeps texture firmer.

mrrecipe: Do you find that adding spices during the creaming of butter and sugar is the best way to encapsulate the spice's flavor oil into the cake?

pichet ong: Yes, recipes traditionally incorporate spices into batters as a dry ingredient, but I prefer to cream them into the butter. Sort of like when you bloom spices or aromatics in oil and surround the cells of the spices in fat so the flavor permeates all over the place. Try it out and you will realize how much more fragrant your cookies bake. You can smell it already when creaming the butter.

mcworks2: How do you make super-concentrated tea essence without it getting bitter?

pichet ong: With tea essences, I recommend making tea first and then reducing it down.

Julia: Also, you are awesome at bringing different flavors together and making them work (sweet and savory, etc...). How do you find the balance between different flavors?

pichet ong: That's a hard one to define: the line between sweet and savory, which is what the book I'm writing now is all about. But if you think about some of the most favorite classical foods of all time, they all involve balancing sweet and savory notes among the ingredients.I grew up with a lot of Asian foods, particularly Chinese, which is all about sweet and savory.

liesel pastryscoop: I love the idea of blurring the lines between sweet and savory. How many sweet things do we already think of as savory that actually are great for use in baking: corn, bell peppers, peas, carrots, parsnips...etc. Breaking down our classification barriers allows us to think of dessert in a new way (not just overly sweetened fare).

pichet ong: Yes, I do too, Liesel. Many vegetables work really well in dessert making. Ironically corn is used by many different cultures of the world for dessert making. It is almost as popular as vanilla in the Eastern world among dessert recipes.

pichet ong: I think a lot of people are concerned with sugar intake and anything sweet because they think it'll make them fat or it's bad for you. But a lot of people also don't realize that most general foods (nondesserts) contain a lot of sweeteners as well.

Julia: I went to a class with Jacques [Torres] this Monday, and he said it's about finding the right balance between the elements as opposed to finding the two elements that just go well together. So, I was wondering how you fine tune that balance—but I guess that would be a lot of trying out! :-)

pichet ong: Yes, it's all about balance.

alexgz: We're seeing a surge of pastry chefs stepping out of their traditional roles and expanding into other areas of the kitchen. What's it like to open up your own restaurant/ bakery after being in restaurants for so long? Are there plans for expansion or for opening up other outlets and is there something you would do differently on your next venture? 

pichet ong: I would love to open up more Batch around. I think the city (and the rest of the country) could use more dessert shops for sure.

caitlingh18: Do you prefer working in a restaurant or bakery more?

pichet ong: I prefer the restaurant as my strength is still in plated food and dessert presentation, but the bakery has been really busy, so I've been spending some time there.

caitlingh18: Do you grind your own spicesl?

pichet ong: Yes, I grind my own spices.

alexgz: True, most elements of classic foods are balanced in one way or another whether it be through sweeteners, aromatics or other additives and we are seeing chefs in general be open to this old "new" way of thinking. How receptive has your clientele been so far? Being in NY is a great proving ground, but how do you feel about other markets in the United States or abroad?

pichet ong: Some clientele get it some don't. But truth be told, most people still think P*ONG is a dessert bar, particularly those who have not been. However, for those who come, they order more savory foods. Our books report far greater savory foods sold, just like a regular restaurant

caitlingh18: Is the economy really affecting pastry chefs in your area, as pastry people are usually first to go when times are like this? Or are they trying to crossover to the culinary side to stick around?

pichet ong: I think this economy is hitting pastry chefs hard. For non-prix fixe restaurants (where certain allowance is distributed to pastry) they seem to be less affected. But for a la carte restaurants, there have been layoffs and cutbacks in expenses. In some situations, pastry chefs may become some what of an "accessory" to the business. It's very sad for me to say that.

Sugar Chef: You are right about the economy hitting us hard. I was the pastry chef at an exclusive country club for 10 years and got laid off in January. They are now ordering all cheap frozen desserts. 

pichet ong: I'm so sorry to hear sugar chef. I truly feel for you. It is awful.

Sugar Chef: Thank you. I can only hope the economy recovers and I will get my job back or a similar one.

liesel pastryscoop: Good luck, Sugar Chef. I hope something good is on its way for you.

mcworks2: What is the best way to handle fresh fruit in a dessert so it doesn't continue to "weep" and dilute custard, sauce, etc?

pichet ong: Cook down the fruit separately and then incorporate it to the recipe.

mcworks2: How do you determine portion size?

mrrecipe: Chef do you think that there is a revolution going on in the pastry kitchen replacing sugar with real flavor instead? Is there more need for pastry schools to teach this new approach?

pichet ong: Yes, there is a great need to educate people about sweetening foods in alternative methods. But don't get me wrong, I love sugar in all forms.

Julia: What is your take on the portion and the dessert?

pichet ong: I think portions should be just right. Not too big not too small. Ultimately you want diner to leave like there is room for one more taste.

Julia: It's been a challenge for me to find that just enough not too much for everyone.

pichet ong: That's where petit fours come in…or going to the pastry shop next door!

Julia: lol!

alexgz: What are you doing to combat that stereotype? Surely people think of you as a pastry chef first and probably have this misconception that you can only do sweets. Because you have such a strong background in pastry do you feel that it is a hindrance in opening up a restaurant, at least when it comes to attracting clientele for say dinner versus dessert?

pichet ong: Yes, it was difficult when we first opened because everyone billed me as a pastry chef and P*ONG as an all-dessert restaurant. But that has to do with the media. Since then, things have shifted quite a bit. More and more people are discovering us as a full-dinner restaurant. Truth is that I still have more experience in savory cooking at this point in my career.

rubycheese: I have a gourmet cheesecake business and am trying to get my product in some upscale restaurants. I'm finding a lot of chefs claim to make all their desserts in house, do you have any advice on how I can get into some of these types of establishments?

pichet ong: rubycheese: I'm dealing with that situation myself. I've invited them for complimentary tastings, and have found that it's a win some lose some situation.

gtucker@mshanken.com: Should lunchtime and dinnertime portions be the same size or should dinner dessert portions be larger? You have more time to eat, and all.

pichet ong: I prefer bigger desserts at lunch so I burn all the calories by dinnertime. But having desserts with dinner for me usually involves some kind of date, so I don't mind them being a little bit bigger then too. More time to linger over sweets!

awildagarcia1978@gmail.com: What is your ultimate dessert that you could eat anytime?

pichet ong: My favorite dessert I can eat anytime? chocolate chip cookie maybe, key lime pie, or a bowl of strawberry or peach ice cream.

alexgz: What advice do you have for pastry chefs expanding into the savory side of food? What's a good way to get good experince without going back to school?

pichet ong: I'd say work on the line. Start of with garde manger, and move on to hot line, starting off with vegetables and then proteins. Find a restaurant where you love the food or has a chef who has the generosity to show you what you want to learn.

liesel pastryscoop: Thank you to everyone for asking soooo many good questions. We need to start wrapping up.

pichet ong: This was fun everyone. Please shoot me an email if I didn't answer someone's question, or drop by the restaurant or bakery this weekend. Thank you, Liesel, for setting this up for me. I hope to do it again soon

liesel pastryscoop: Pichet, where should they contact you?

pichet ong: pichet.ong@gmail.com or even better: Facebook me!!!

liesel pastryscoop: Perfect! Thank you everyone! We love your desserts, Pichet! It was great chatting with you!