PastryScoop.com Online Chat Transcript

Rose Levy Beranbaum
December 16, 2003

<Kate_PastryScoop> Welcome to today's PastryScoop.com chat with Rose Levy Beranbaum.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Hi everybody!

<Kate_PastryScoop> We're going to give everyone just a couple of minutes to log in before we start. We'll also have a couple of people from PastryScoop.com on today's chat as well: Angela and Judiaann. Thank you for joining us, Rose. We're thrilled to have you.

<NhumiSD> Hi everyone.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Hi NhumiSD. We're just getting started.

<Angela_PastryScoop> Hi NhumiSD. Welcome back

<Kate_PastryScoop> Would anyone like to start off the chat with a question?

<NhumiSD> Angela hello, thank you, nice to see you again too

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> O.K., here's one from me: does everyone know the right kind of flour for yeast bread vs. quick bread?

<NhumiSD> Quick bread needs flour with less gluten then yeast breads?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> That's part of it, but the most important part is that quick bread that uses solid butter, i.e. not melted, must have bleached flour.If it doesn't, the bread will fall on cooling-sinking in the middle. That's because bleaching roughens the flour particles and enables them to hold the butter in suspension.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> That's a great bit of information!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Welcome to everyone who has just joined us. We're talking about bread with Rose Levy Beranbaum today.

<Angela_PastryScoop> I've had that happen before. Good to know

<NhumiSD> Interesting.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> You'd be surpirsed how many food professionals don't know about this and wonder why some cakes and quick breads fall!

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Another thing that's terrific to know is about instant yeast! This variety of yeast is added directly to the flour instead of proofing in warm water which makes it impossible to kill the yeast resulting in a doorstop! I store the yeast in the freezer where i've found it keeps for as long as 2 years!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Is this active dry yeast from the packets?

<SusanG> Where do you find it? Is it the same as bread machine yeast?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> I like the SAF instant yeast for its reliability, but instant yeast also goes under the name rapid rise, bread machine, etc. etc.

<SusanG> Great!

<NhumiSD> I think I saw the SAF at Smart and Final.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> It's available in supermarkets. It may also be called instant active dry yeast, but just pain active dry is not instant and needs to be proofed. If you get it in a large quantity, empty a smaller amount into a small container so you don't have to keep taking out the big one and exposing it to air and warmer temperatures.

<Angela_PastryScoop> Are there any breads you particularly enjoy making? Anything seasonal?

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Rose, do you have a favorite brand of all-purpose flour?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> If you are replacing active dry in recipes you already have, you use less of the instant because the purpose is not to speed rising but to make it more reliable. speed = flavor loss!

<sofi> If you keep yeast in the freeze, and you are ready to use it, do you have to bring it up to room temp or use it instantly?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> No, you don't have to do anything with the frozen granulated instant yeast-just add it to the flour.

<sofi> Thank you!

<NhumiSD> What kind of cake should I use in a christmas log, that would be soft and moist, instead of genoise. Can it be a sponge cake?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> You can use any cake that can be rolled such as a sponge cake. I like to use a flourless chocolate sponge.

<ProgressivePro> Are you finding any trends in cake baking this holiday season?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> More people are doing home baking this season I think because of the news about transfat and how it exists in almost all commercial baked goods. When you bake it yourself, you know what goes in it.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Butter, sugar, love.

<jdenio> How do you recommend storing fresh yeast to extend its shelf life? Can it be frozen?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Actually I see no point in using fresh yeast-there is no advantage and often it is not as lively as it should be when you buy it, but there's no way to tell. Freezing kills some of the yeast so it's recommended to store in the refrigerator.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Rose, what are your favorite recipes from your new cookbook The Bread Bible?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Favorite recipes: I'll have to divide into categories because there is batter bread such as the yorkshire popovers-fantastic, quickbread such as the cinnamon crumb surprise and cranberry banana walnut, brioche type breads such as the chocolate spiral kugelhopf and my very favorite the sticky buns or chocolate sticky buns, and of course flat breads-the pizza dough is terrific. then for hearth breads-the cranberry pecan, the heart of wheat-I'd better stop or I won't be able to answer more!

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> I can't wait to try recipes.

<SusanG> Is the flourless chocolate sponge in The Cake Bible?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Yes, there are two versions of chocolate cake rolls in The Cake Bible , one with cocoa and one with chocolate. Oh, by the way, the stud muffin in the bread book is a major favorite-it contains 3 cheeses and is studded with gruyere which carmelizes on the surface--yum!!!

<SusanG> Oh yum! Thanks.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Love the name "stud muffin."

<tedwin> Now that you've tackled bread, cookies, cakes, pies & pastries, what will be the subject of your next "bible"?

<ProgressivePro> Do you have any tips for creating cakes/wedding cakes?

<NhumiSD> How long does it take you to compile all recipes for a book ?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> This is my final "bible," but my next cookbook will be going back to cake with answers to some of the questions that have come up, new recipes, and new wedding cake recipes. It takes me 5 years to complete a "bible" because it is so in depth and comprehensive. Smaller books like Rose's Christmas Cookies was only about 2 years. The last 2 years i have been totally buried in bread and book production. By the way, speaking of book production, there is a small mistake-but given that the book is 640 pages long it's not unusual-I'll give you the correction. The rye bread recipe has rye flour ONLY in the sponge so cross out the words rye flour in the flour mxiture. Also the two 14 cups of bread flour weigh 12.3 oz.

<Scott> Rose: the middle of my breads are often dense and tough. What can cause this to happen? What should I try differently? (thanks)

<NhumiSD> Yes, Ive had that problem with bread too.

<sofi> How does the panetonne bread get so strechy? I tried to make one, and it did not come out like the store bought ones. Also mine had the yeast taste. Any ideas why?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> To answer the dense and tough question, this happens when the dough is too dry. You need for the dough to be slightly sticky to the touch to get a good textxure in most yeast breads. Re panetonne-I'm very proud of the one in the new book. I worked really hard on it to get the best texture and flavor I've ever experienced in a panettone. But I'd cut the fiori di sicilia in half because it's very very intense. Made it for Thanksgiving.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Another mistake is on Brinna's pugliesi, the biga: the 3 fluid ozs. of water are 6 tablespoons NOT teaspoons! Back to Sofi, panettone is an incredibly special complex bread so I can't give you tips to make it better, you have to try my recipe. For scott: the proportions for a basic loaf are 1 cup bread flour, 1/2 cup or 1/2 cup minus 1 tablespoon water, 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1/4 teaspoon instant yeast.

<sofi> O.K. Thanks. I'll give it a try.

<Scott> Great, thanks.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Bread flour weighs 5.5 ounces/156 grams. If you measure, you may get slightly more or less. If you use all purpose flour use the lower amount of water.

<NhumiSD> I am looking for a certain cookie that looks more like a brittle but is very crunchy and has sliced nuts in it. It would just be flat pieces. Any idea what kind of cookit it is ?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Sorry, re cookie, can't think exactly what that would be

<NhumiSD> Thanks.

<Scott> Also, how will over kneading damage bread? Should I be concerned about this? Especially after a bad day at work.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> If you knead by hand, there is little chance of overkneading but by machine, the gluten strands will break down, and the dough will lose it's elasticity. The trend these days is to underknead and then to develop the dough further between or during risings by stretching it or giving it envelope folds like puff pastry. Each time you do that the dough gets stronger and it's a more gentle way to develop the gluten. Also with less oxygenation than kneading by machine so dough doesn't get bleached or lose flavor. 7 min. is the maximum dough hook kneading in most machines.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> The first thing I'm doing after the chat is making the prosciutto ring from my book but adding provolone cheese and some extra sourdough starter I happen to have. Always experimenting-I'm really addicted to the process of bread making.

<Angela_PastryScoop> I love proscuitto ring...yum. Bread was my favorite section of coursework at The French Culinary Institute. It's an amazing process.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> You can add cracklings to it, too, and even double the prosciutto. For people who don't eat ham, turkey "ham" is a great substitute.

<tedwin> NhumiSD's cookie might be your Mahogany Toffee from the Christmas book. I just made some this week, and it was great!

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> tedwin--thank you--i was trying to remember the name of that favorite cookie, but having just returned from a 12 city book tour my mind is mush!

<NhumiSD> tedwin, thanks. I will have to go look it up.

<irene> Do you make you own seed cultures ? I'm attempting to start one today for the burm for Swedish Lippaar.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Oh yes-I have a sourdough culture I started last December and I'm now feeding part of it rye flour to make an all rye culture. It will take all of 9 feedings to lose all it's white flour. Then when I use it for the sourdough rye bread I won't have to add any more rye, and It will have 42% rye flour. Over 20% rye won't work unless you use a sourdough culture because the pentosans in the rye flour cause the dough to be horribly sticky, but the acid in the sourdough prevents this.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Forgot to mention that the bagels are really fantastic and well worth making at home. If you don't get high gluten flour, you can easily add some vital wheat gluten available in all supermarketes or at least most! The extra gluten is to give the bagel it's characteristical chewiness.

<NhumiSD> How much would you add of the vital wheat gluten per cup of flour?

<Angela_PastryScoop> Does your book have a recipe for Chocolate Bread? I had some recently and would love to try and make it.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Angela, I do have a chocolate bread, but it's a chocolate quick bread which is more like a cake. I find the flavor of yeast and chocolate to conflict however, adding it to a spiral within such as the kugelhopf or the brioche dough is excellent.

<Angela_PastryScoop> Thanks.

<rwiegley> The one time I attempted bagels, they came out of the water flat and lumpy. Any idea what would have caused that?

<rose> Re vital wheat gluten: 12 to 2 teaspoons per cup of flour.

<rose> the bagels shrivel slightly after the water bath but should not be flat. This could mean they were over-proofed.

<rwiegley> Thank you.

<rose> If you use the vital wheat gluten or high gluten flour, it should keep it from flattening because of the higher protein.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Rose, do you have any recipes or tips for great doughnuts? I'd like to find a truly great recipe for a classic raised glazed.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Re doughnuts, I decided not to include them in any of my books because it is my feeling that they are only wonderful when freshly made and deep fat frying is something a lot of peolple are unwilling to do.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes, doughnuts are only good fresh and sadly it's becoming a bit of a lost art.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Maybe I should do donuts in my next book for those who want to throw a donut party!

<Angela_PastryScoop> Yes! A donut party is a great idea.

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Yes!!!!

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> O.K. You've convinced me! I love the bombolini-the little Italian donuts.

<NhumiSD> Or the french version of donuts

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> French version of donuts like french crullers? that's simply pate a choux deep fried!

<NhumiSD> Oh, I meant the beignets from New Orleans.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> If you think of questionss later you can always check in to my website www.roselevyberanbaum.com . I try to answer at least on a quarterly basis if not more often.

<Scott> Rose: I thought a longer proofing = more flavor. Am I mistaken? If not, how long is too long when it comes to proofing?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Yes scott, longer proofing = more flavor which is why you don't want to speed it up. Too long is when the dough over-rises. You can balance this with using less yeast or a colder temperature. I cover all this in the book in great detail.

<Scott> Thanks.

<fiddle> In Portland

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> fiddle, hat is your question re portland?

<fiddle> Bob's Red Mill flour; comment?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> fiddle, I've used their wheat germ, and it's great. Haven't used the flour. but an important thing about flour is that if it isn't stored in the freezer, it becomes old and should be discarded after a year. Wholewheat flour at room temperature becomes rancid after about 3 months. By the way, fresh wheat germ is fantastic in bread, but get it at a health food store and store it in the freezer because it gets rancid quickly. I use this for my heart of wheat bread. Toasted is NOT the same!

<NhumiSD> Could you just make the dough and let it sit n the refrigerator over night then bake the next day for breads?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> NhumSD: yes-in fact you get even more flavor when you refrigerate. overnight. but allow it to sit at room temperature about 1 hour before shaping, or if already shaped, let it sit till it is almost double.

<NhumiSD> Do I need to degas it after I take it out ? I made an Italian bread once, degassed it after it had been in the refrigerator all night. It didnt seem to poof up again?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> No-don't degas, though if you haven't already shaped it, when you do it will lose a little air but should come back again in the oven!

<NhumiSD> I see. Thanks.

<Kate_PastryScoop> Any more questions out there? There are still a few minutes left.

<leticia> Rose, I just got in. Do you have any recipes for Canelles on your book?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> No canelles in the book-but Paula Wolfert has one in her new book, and I bet it's fantastic!

<leticia> O.K. Her recipe is famous. How can get her recipe?

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> > It's in her new book, The Slow Mediterranean Kitchen .

<leticia> O.K. Thank you.

<tedwin> Will you be making any other appearances in Washington, DC when you speak at the Smithsonian in February?

<fiddle> Love your books!!

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Thanks fiddle! Love writing them! Re Smithsonian, don't plan on other appearances but that should be fantastic with Peter Reinhart and Mark F.

<Angela_PastryScoop> Thank you so much Rose! This was fun! Happy Holidays to everyone and be on the look out for our new chat series in 2004!

<Kate_PastryScoop> Thank you so much, Rose. This has been a great chat! For everyone who joined, Rose's website is www.roselevyberanbaum.com , and I'm sure you want to check out her book, The Bread Bible .

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> Thank you everyone. Loved "chatting" with you!

<rwiegley> Thank you!

<tedwin> Thanks Rose. Keeps those books coming!

<Scott> Thanks!!

<NhumiSD> Thank you.

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> This is a Jewish goodbye! i.e. it takes a long time!!!

<Angela_PastryScoop> Who's going to host the donut party?

<Kate_PastryScoop> For everyone joining, please be sure to check out PastryScoop.com's upcoming Passion for Pastry Conference (March 7,8). Find out more at www.pastryscoop.com

<Judiaann_PastryScoop> Rose, thank you for joining us and offering so many GREAT tips. Happy Baking!

<Rose Levy Beranbaum> You're very welcome! Happy holidays and happy baking!

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